The FORD Lounge

[Gary Lewis]

We don't have quail hunting up here, but we have dove and pheasant. From my observations dove and pheasant hunters (as well as duck hunters) think it's impossible to get the quick shots off needed to hit grouse and woodcock, while grouse and woodcock hunters think it's impossible to hit fast flying birds that don't give you close shots. Both types of shooting are challenging, but in different ways. So yeah, it's tight quarters where I hunt. But a really long shot at a grouse is about 20 yards (woodcock shots are even closer). About 5 of those 10 shots were at grouse and none of them were long shots. So if you can get a gun up and pointing where you are looking quick enough they're pretty easy to hit (not that it's a small "if").

And for a poor hunter and dog trainer like me (OK, I'm not terrible, but I'm not competitive even in the fun runs I enter, so I know others are better), grouse and woodcock are the only game in town for a pointing dog. Dove and ducks are either shot as they pass over, or else jumped up from ponds (in the case of ducks). Decoys and so forth can improve your chances, but about the only use for a dog is retrieving. Not to put down the value of a good retriever, but I have a pointing dog, not a retriever, so that's not for me. And in Minnesota most peasant hunting is in cattails or corn, neither of which is a place a pointing dog is of much benefit. Minnesota pheasant hunting is more about getting a line of hunters and dogs to push birds toward another line of hunters so the birds will fly when trapped between the lines. Grouse and woodcock are perfect for one pointing dog who's being followed by one or two hunters.

As to the shells, I reload. So while the hulls look different they were really all the same loads. And in fact two of the hulls were even the same, Winchester AA target loads in red or in gray.

And 3 out of 10? I don't feel terrible about it, but I wouldn't call it good shooting by any means. If I had bagged a couple grouse as well with the same number of shots I'd have felt better about my shooting. But I'm mostly out there to have fun (and let Kenzie have even more fun than me). So it was definitely a great day.

Pheasant hunting here depends on the time of year. The birds are typically in open fields and in the early part of the season they'll sit until you are close and then fly - with a heart-stopping sound that usually causes you to shoot too early. (My grandfather had a story about that. He always wore a cap when hunting, and one day a friend asked why. He said "When the birds get up I through the cap on the ground, stomp on it, and then shoot. By then the birds have gotten far enough away I can hit it.")

But later in the year after they've been hunted they run instead of getting up, which is when we deploy another line of hunters at the end of the field to kick them up. (Or maybe the ones still living always ran and the ones that flew have been eaten?)

But quail are different. There are some quail in the open fields, but they like the windrows that surround the old homesteads. Or, they are in the woods. But in either case most of our shooting is much more open than that shown in your pictures.

And dove do their own thing. Some sit in trees. Some fly to the ponds. And they fly like they are drunk.

So it is a bit of a challenge to have the right gun and the right loads. A few years ago we hunted in southern KS and my gun had a full choke but light shot, like #6 or 7 1/2. But that shot wasn't quite heavy enough for the pheasant if they got up very far away. However, it worked fairly well with the quail.

 

[Nothing Special]

Pheasant hunting here depends on the time of year. The birds are typically in open fields and in the early part of the season they'll sit until you are close and then fly - with a heart-stopping sound that usually causes you to shoot too early. (My grandfather had a story about that. He always wore a cap when hunting, and one day a friend asked why. He said "When the birds get up I through the cap on the ground, stomp on it, and then shoot. By then the birds have gotten far enough away I can hit it.")

But later in the year after they've been hunted they run instead of getting up, which is when we deploy another line of hunters at the end of the field to kick them up. (Or maybe the ones still living always ran and the ones that flew have been eaten?)

But quail are different. There are some quail in the open fields, but they like the windrows that surround the old homesteads. Or, they are in the woods. But in either case most of our shooting is much more open than that shown in your pictures.

And dove do their own thing. Some sit in trees. Some fly to the ponds. And they fly like they are drunk.

So it is a bit of a challenge to have the right gun and the right loads. A few years ago we hunted in southern KS and my gun had a full choke but light shot, like #6 or 7 1/2. But that shot wasn't quite heavy enough for the pheasant if they got up very far away. However, it worked fairly well with the quail.

Grouse aren't very tough birds, and woodcock even less so. Friday I was carrying my old 12 ga Browning Citori, with cylinder choke in the over barrel and skeet 1 in the under. The shells were standard target loads with 1 1/8 oz of #7 1/2 shot.

My newer gun is a CZ Bobwhite in 28 ga. 28 ga loads are lighter, with 3/4 oz of shot, so I use slightly tighter chokes, more like skeet 1 / improved cylinder. I really like carrying the lighter gun better, and I like the side-by-side with double triggers for better barrel selection (if I decide I want to use the tighter choke for the first shot). But I'm pretty rusty, I haven't done enough shooting recently, and I wanted to give myself the best chance to actually hit birds, so I brought the 12 ga that throws a bigger pattern.

I'd like to hunt quail some time, or Hungarian partridge. I think it'd be a lot of fun to hunt covey birds! And I'd like to try hunting pheasant somewhere where they can be found in more open fields. But any of those would mean a multi-day out-of-state hunting trip. And while I think it'd be fun, if I'm taking a vacation without Lesley I'd much rather it be something like a trip with the Bronco to go 'wheeling with a group of people than going hunting where it's just me and Kenzie. So I doubt I'll ever make a trip like that. Besides, Minnesota is one of the best destination grouse states in the country, and I get to hunt here with a $23 resident small game license.

[Gary Lewis]

Grouse aren't very tough birds, and woodcock even less so. Friday I was carrying my old 12 ga Browning Citori, with cylinder choke in the over barrel and skeet 1 in the under. The shells were standard target loads with 1 1/8 oz of #7 1/2 shot.

My newer gun is a CZ Bobwhite in 28 ga. 28 ga loads are lighter, with 3/4 oz of shot, so I use slightly tighter chokes, more like skeet 1 / improved cylinder. I really like carrying the lighter gun better, and I like the side-by-side with double triggers for better barrel selection (if I decide I want to use the tighter choke for the first shot). But I'm pretty rusty, I haven't done enough shooting recently, and I wanted to give myself the best chance to actually hit birds, so I brought the 12 ga that throws a bigger pattern.

I'd like to hunt quail some time, or Hungarian partridge. I think it'd be a lot of fun to hunt covey birds! And I'd like to try hunting pheasant somewhere where they can be found in more open fields. But any of those would mean a multi-day out-of-state hunting trip. And while I think it'd be fun, if I'm taking a vacation without Lesley I'd much rather it be something like a trip with the Bronco to go 'wheeling with a group of people than going hunting where it's just me and Kenzie. So I doubt I'll ever make a trip like that. Besides, Minnesota is one of the best destination grouse states in the country, and I get to hunt here with a $23 resident small game license.

I started w/a Mossberg 20 gauge bolt-action and screw-on chokes. Was pretty good w/it. But Dad traded it for a 12 gauge Remington auto for my birthday and told me it had a modified choke. That would have been in June, and on Sept 1st, my brother's birthday and the traditional opening day for dove here, we went dove hunting and I couldn't hit anything.

Finally I got to looking it over closely and it did have an M on one side, but on the other it said Full. Next dove that got up dropped pretty quickly, just a bit farther out.

I did learn that there is a big difference between a 20 and a modified choke and a 12 with a full choke. If I were in your environment I'd want the 20. But for pheasant in our situation the 12 is the gun. I've not shot a 28 so can't comment.

As for hunting dogs, I just saw this on FB and thought of you:

[Nothing Special]

I started w/a Mossberg 20 gauge bolt-action and screw-on chokes. Was pretty good w/it. But Dad traded it for a 12 gauge Remington auto for my birthday and told me it had a modified choke. That would have been in June, and on Sept 1st, my brother's birthday and the traditional opening day for dove here, we went dove hunting and I couldn't hit anything.

Finally I got to looking it over closely and it did have an M on one side, but on the other it said Full. Next dove that got up dropped pretty quickly, just a bit farther out.

I did learn that there is a big difference between a 20 and a modified choke and a 12 with a full choke. If I were in your environment I'd want the 20. But for pheasant in our situation the 12 is the gun. I've not shot a 28 so can't comment.

As for hunting dogs, I just saw this on FB and thought of you:

When I bought my 28 ga I was trying to decide between a 20 ga (a more practical gun) and a 28 ga (lighter weight and a little more "cool" factor). What tipped the decision for me was that the CZ Bobwhite had been discontinued and I found a 28 ga but couldn't find a 20 ga. I do like the gun, but I need to practice with it to be able to hit anything. Even rusty I can hit OK with my Citori.

And in my environment even the modified choke is way too tight. I take almost all of my birds with a cylinder choke in the 12.

[Gary Lewis]

When I bought my 28 ga I was trying to decide between a 20 ga (a more practical gun) and a 28 ga (lighter weight and a little more "cool" factor). What tipped the decision for me was that the CZ Bobwhite had been discontinued and I found a 28 ga but couldn't find a 20 ga. I do like the gun, but I need to practice with it to be able to hit anything. Even rusty I can hit OK with my Citori.

And in my environment even the modified choke is way too tight. I take almost all of my birds with a cylinder choke in the 12.

My uncle used to use a square back 12 ga Browning in IC, and he didn't miss. But that was eastern OK in the woods. Don't think it would have worked as well in central KS on pheasant.

Man, that guy was awesome! I was in high school football and in excellent shape and he walked me into the ground. He LOVED to hunt, and trained his own dogs. They were a joy to hunt with.

[FuzzFace2]

My uncle used to use a square back 12 ga Browning in IC, and he didn't miss. But that was eastern OK in the woods. Don't think it would have worked as well in central KS on pheasant.

Man, that guy was awesome! I was in high school football and in excellent shape and he walked me into the ground. He LOVED to hunt, and trained his own dogs. They were a joy to hunt with.

I was a kid when I went pheasant hunting with the shooting club I was a member of for small bore target shooting. I dont even remember the ga. shot gun I used?

The older members that hunted would bring their dogs out for the hunt for all the kid members.

When not on the hunt we shot skeet. It was a lot of fun.

I think some dogs were still in training as I remember some of them chasing the birds and everyone yelling not to shoot!

We have a Black & tan coon hound / lab mix.

She has a nose and I love to watch her "work" when I throw some in out in the yard.

But a gun shot, fire works and thunder and she is in your lap, 70 lb dog, shaking like crazy.

I dont hunt so I am not even going to try and get her to not hide LOL

Dave ----

[Nothing Special]

I was a kid when I went pheasant hunting with the shooting club I was a member of for small bore target shooting. I dont even remember the ga. shot gun I used?

The older members that hunted would bring their dogs out for the hunt for all the kid members.

When not on the hunt we shot skeet. It was a lot of fun.

I think some dogs were still in training as I remember some of them chasing the birds and everyone yelling not to shoot!

We have a Black & tan coon hound / lab mix.

She has a nose and I love to watch her "work" when I throw some in out in the yard.

But a gun shot, fire works and thunder and she is in your lap, 70 lb dog, shaking like crazy.

I dont hunt so I am not even going to try and get her to not hide LOL

Dave ----

My first bird dog would turn unto a quivering mess any time she heard thunder or fireworks. But she got excited at the sound of a shotgun! Her head and ears would go up as she looked for where the bird might be falling (she had more confidence in my shooting than I did!). Rifle or hand gun fire she pretty much ignored. So go figure.

[Gary Lewis]

My first bird dog would turn unto a quivering mess any time she heard thunder or fireworks. But she got excited at the sound of a shotgun! Her head and ears would go up as she looked for where the bird might be falling (she had more confidence in my shooting than I did!). Rifle or hand gun fire she pretty much ignored. So go figure.

This discussion reminds me of an incident in my youth. It was about the 4th of July and I'd come up with a "brilliant" idea of cutting the bottom out of an aerosol can, drilling a hole in its top just the size to take a Black Cat, and dropping that in a slightly bigger can of water. It sent them almost out of sight!

We were down at our cabin, which we shared with my uncle and his wife, and I lit one of those. His favorite hunting dog heard the sizzle and came to investigate. Just as it went off she put her muzzle over it and it hit her. She went yelping and running, and my uncle was NOT happy.

Luckily that didn't make her gun shy, and nothing came of it. But it was pretty tense for a few minutes. And now, looking back on it, I know why.

And, thinking of "rifle or gun in hand", our family dog LOVED to hunt. And if we got the guns out and didn't take her when we got home she stood in front of us and told us OFF! I mean, barked her head off! But her idea of "hunt" was to go scare things up, regardless of where they were, so we didn't get many shots with her around.

[Nothing Special]

This discussion reminds me of an incident in my youth. It was about the 4th of July and I'd come up with a "brilliant" idea of cutting the bottom out of an aerosol can, drilling a hole in its top just the size to take a Black Cat, and dropping that in a slightly bigger can of water. It sent them almost out of sight!

We were down at our cabin, which we shared with my uncle and his wife, and I lit one of those. His favorite hunting dog heard the sizzle and came to investigate. Just as it went off she put her muzzle over it and it hit her. She went yelping and running, and my uncle was NOT happy.

Luckily that didn't make her gun shy, and nothing came of it. But it was pretty tense for a few minutes. And now, looking back on it, I know why.

And, thinking of "rifle or gun in hand", our family dog LOVED to hunt. And if we got the guns out and didn't take her when we got home she stood in front of us and told us OFF! I mean, barked her head off! But her idea of "hunt" was to go scare things up, regardless of where they were, so we didn't get many shots with her around.

Kenzie is usually pretty calm in the back yard as we're loading up a vehicle for just about anything. But when I'm loading it to go hunting or to dog training club she goes nuts, howling, spinning in circles, jumping up and down. I don't know what it is that she keys on for that because she seems to understand right from the beginning if that's what we're doing, not waiting to see the gun or something that only gets loaded for hunting. But whatever it is, she knows!

And a little different, but your story of your dog reminded me... When I was a kid we had a mutt family dog. When we'd go somewhere with her, like up to the cabin, she'd usually lay on the floor in the back seat, but sometimes she'd be in front, wherever someone let her in. She'd always be on the floor though, just flopping down wherever she was.

When we were up at the cabin she was usually off leash, and she'd wander around a bit, hunting chipmunks and once a skunk (but that's a different story). But once we started loading up to go home she'd just follow people back and forth between the cabin and the car.

Except once. For some reason she wasn't underfoot as we were loading up, and we managed to get on the road without her. It was about 15 minutes before someone in the back seat asked "is Nosey in the front seat?" So we turned around but it was about a half hour that she was there alone.

When we got back she was sitting at the end of the driveway, looking up the road at us. But as we pulled past her and into the driveway she just sat there, still looking up the road. I opened a back door and called her over and she still sat for a while before eventually dropping her head and slowly walking over without looking at us. She wouldn't get in by herself, so I had to get out and lift her in. It was probably another half hour before she stopped pouting about being forgotten!

[Gary Lewis]

Kenzie is usually pretty calm in the back yard as we're loading up a vehicle for just about anything. But when I'm loading it to go hunting or to dog training club she goes nuts, howling, spinning in circles, jumping up and down. I don't know what it is that she keys on for that because she seems to understand right from the beginning if that's what we're doing, not waiting to see the gun or something that only gets loaded for hunting. But whatever it is, she knows!

And a little different, but your story of your dog reminded me... When I was a kid we had a mutt family dog. When we'd go somewhere with her, like up to the cabin, she'd usually lay on the floor in the back seat, but sometimes she'd be in front, wherever someone let her in. She'd always be on the floor though, just flopping down wherever she was.

When we were up at the cabin she was usually off leash, and she'd wander around a bit, hunting chipmunks and once a skunk (but that's a different story). But once we started loading up to go home she'd just follow people back and forth between the cabin and the car.

Except once. For some reason she wasn't underfoot as we were loading up, and we managed to get on the road without her. It was about 15 minutes before someone in the back seat asked "is Nosey in the front seat?" So we turned around but it was about a half hour that she was there alone.

When we got back she was sitting at the end of the driveway, looking up the road at us. But as we pulled past her and into the driveway she just sat there, still looking up the road. I opened a back door and called her over and she still sat for a while before eventually dropping her head and slowly walking over without looking at us. She wouldn't get in by herself, so I had to get out and lift her in. It was probably another half hour before she stopped pouting about being forgotten!

That's a funny, and very familiar story. Just read it to my brother and we had a good laugh!

He said that our dog, also a mutt, could have gotten the guns for us. He knew when we were getting ready and he PLANNED to go.

One time Dad and I went on to the cabin w/o Mom and my brother and didn't take the dog. When they got there the next day the dog ran into the cabin and told us off in no uncertain terms. Man, was he mad!