Blacktop Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Hi guys, I'm considering fitting a pmgr starter to my 1984 351w with manual trans. Had a look on Rockauto and there appears to be a difference in the number of teeth on the starter gear, either 9 or 10 teeth. Can anyone recommend a starter that will bolt straight on with the correct teeth count? I believe the current starter has a 10 tooth gear, according to Rockauto, but I dont have my truck available to check as it is in storage until the spring. Many thanks for any info, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Interesting. I just picked up a PMGR starter from the junkyard (Removed from a 1996 F150 w/300.6 and manual trans). It has 10 teeth btw. Looking at Rock Auto, and I picked AC Delco for reference...the starters were 9 tooth up to 1991, and then change to 10 tooth for 1992-1996. We'll have to wait for the experts to chime in here. I'm doing the PMGR swap myself, but didn't study anything other than the wiring change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktop Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Interesting. I just picked up a PMGR starter from the junkyard (Removed from a 1996 F150 w/300.6 and manual trans). It has 10 teeth btw. Looking at Rock Auto, and I picked AC Delco for reference...the starters were 9 tooth up to 1991, and then change to 10 tooth for 1992-1996. We'll have to wait for the experts to chime in here. I'm doing the PMGR swap myself, but didn't study anything other than the wiring change. I wont know for certain exactly what I have until I can remove my current starter and count the teeth. Being a manual trans, I hope it's a 157 tooth flywheel in which case it should have a 10 tooth starter I think:nabble_anim_confused: Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I wont know for certain exactly what I have until I can remove my current starter and count the teeth. Being a manual trans, I hope it's a 157 tooth flywheel in which case it should have a 10 tooth starter I think:nabble_anim_confused: Alan I have to ask why do you want to go with the PMGR starter? Most of the time it is to clear long tube headers because they are smaller. Or is it because the later years the PMGR was a factory thing and is smaller? If it is because of size and to clear something I would go with https://www.robbmcperformance.com/ I installed one on my drag motor when the factory size starter, same size & type of the Ford starter, went bad because of header heat. To remove the stock starter you had to pull the header off the head and push it out of the way. The RobbMc is so small I can leave the header bolted to the head. I like that you can clock the solenoid any where because it uses a band clamp not bolt holes that you need to line up and hope the solenoid clears the header or block. I hear service is great from people that needed service, like the gear teeth count not right, I have never needed to use it. I liked it so much when there was a mass buy discount on another forum I got a back up just in case, been on the shelf ever since in came in. Hey its made in the USA! Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktop Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 I have to ask why do you want to go with the PMGR starter? Most of the time it is to clear long tube headers because they are smaller. Or is it because the later years the PMGR was a factory thing and is smaller? If it is because of size and to clear something I would go with https://www.robbmcperformance.com/ I installed one on my drag motor when the factory size starter, same size & type of the Ford starter, went bad because of header heat. To remove the stock starter you had to pull the header off the head and push it out of the way. The RobbMc is so small I can leave the header bolted to the head. I like that you can clock the solenoid any where because it uses a band clamp not bolt holes that you need to line up and hope the solenoid clears the header or block. I hear service is great from people that needed service, like the gear teeth count not right, I have never needed to use it. I liked it so much when there was a mass buy discount on another forum I got a back up just in case, been on the shelf ever since in came in. Hey its made in the USA! Dave ---- Ive fitted a pmgr starter before on my foxbody mustang and was impressed how much easier the motor would turn over and fire compared to the old starter. Looking to have the same improvement on my truck too. Thanks for the info, I'll check them out👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Ive fitted a pmgr starter before on my foxbody mustang and was impressed how much easier the motor would turn over and fire compared to the old starter. Looking to have the same improvement on my truck too. Thanks for the info, I'll check them out👍 While we are waiting for the experts to chime in, I took a look at the MPC and the Interchange page. Seems that the starters changed in 12/83 and then again in 1987, and that's for 300's, 302's, and 351W's. But then it gets murky as the 351W changed again in '89, but the 300 and 302 didn't change until '91. Last, as of '92 they were all the same again. (Boy did I word that poorly! ) But, what I can't tell is how many teeth on the flywheel. Sorry, this is a really confusing area to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktop Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 While we are waiting for the experts to chime in, I took a look at the MPC and the Interchange page. Seems that the starters changed in 12/83 and then again in 1987, and that's for 300's, 302's, and 351W's. But then it gets murky as the 351W changed again in '89, but the 300 and 302 didn't change until '91. Last, as of '92 they were all the same again. (Boy did I word that poorly! ) But, what I can't tell is how many teeth on the flywheel. Sorry, this is a really confusing area to me. No problem Gary, dont worry about it. All will become clear when I can count the number of teeth on my starter. When I do, I'll update this thread👍 Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Being a manual trans, I hope it's a 157 tooth flywheel in which case it should have a 10 tooth starter I think:nabble_anim_confused: The 157 tooth flywheel is for a car bellhousing (like your Foxbody Mustang). The trucks take a larger 164 tooth flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 While we are waiting for the experts to chime in, I took a look at the MPC and the Interchange page. Seems that the starters changed in 12/83 and then again in 1987, and that's for 300's, 302's, and 351W's. But then it gets murky as the 351W changed again in '89, but the 300 and 302 didn't change until '91. Last, as of '92 they were all the same again. (Boy did I word that poorly! ) But, what I can't tell is how many teeth on the flywheel. Sorry, this is a really confusing area to me. I don't think tooth count matters as long as the circumference is equally divisible by tooth width. .... And the radius is correct for engagement depth. Wow, did I have issues with that when I installed a Dorman flywheel. At least that's how it works with both metric (module) and imperial (dimeteral) systems. -This Old Tony- on YouTube has a great basic primer on gear cutting right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 ...how much easier the motor would turn over and fire compared to the old starter. Looking to have the same improvement on my truck too.If the truck's starter isn't spinning full speed, it's probably resistance in the wiring. A different starter won't fix that. To find out, just measure voltage at the starter AND at the battery posts (2 digital multimeters) during cranking. If the starter is >1V different from the battery, you need to clean the whole cranking circuit before buying any parts. Click these & read the captions: https://supermotors.net/getfile/723279/thumbnail/07done.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/955475/thumbnail/26winchrelays.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/1035425/thumbnail/g103v8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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