Old Blue - 1984 XL Flareside

[Gary Lewis]

So, I got some time and put the water pump on! I worked the bolts over the past few weeks (probably about 10 mins of real work really), and I got lots of gunk out and I'm happy with the fit now. Everything went well... almost.

I did hit one snag though, and I'm not sure if it's a big deal or not. I mentioned awhile back that when I removed the water pump, I noticed some bolts were only hand tight...

All the bolts went in nicely, I put the pump on (with gasket and a little insurance Permatex around the sides of the pump where the water circulates in and out) and let it sit hand tight for an hour then torqued the bolts to 15 ft/lb. All went well, except for one bolt (of course) Pics below. Thankfully it's an "upper bolt", I'd assume the lower bolts near the inlet/outlet are the most important.

Essentially, I can get that one bolt past hand tight, but only about one revolution past, then the bolts "pops" for lack of a better word and it loses grip. If I back out the bolt and hand tighten again, I can feel it grip the threads and I cannot pull the bolt out, but if I go past that point where it "pops", I can't pull it out but it doesn't tighten anymore. If I put my finger on the back side of the timing cover, I can't feel anything odd, or metal filings etc. (No bolt either, but I wouldn't have expected that anyway) I have a feeling this damage was done in the past, but I'm not sure what could have caused it.

I'm guessing the advice is to tap a new hole for this bolt or getting a new timing cover? Or since it was like this before (although I was unaware of this behavior of this bolt) is it worth seeing if it's ok?

If that's the bolt I think it is and goes all the way through the timing cover and into a little open spot on the back, how about using a longer bolt with a nut on the back? It isn't the factory way, but tension is tension.

[Machspeed]

So, I got some time and put the water pump on! I worked the bolts over the past few weeks (probably about 10 mins of real work really), and I got lots of gunk out and I'm happy with the fit now. Everything went well... almost.

I did hit one snag though, and I'm not sure if it's a big deal or not. I mentioned awhile back that when I removed the water pump, I noticed some bolts were only hand tight...

All the bolts went in nicely, I put the pump on (with gasket and a little insurance Permatex around the sides of the pump where the water circulates in and out) and let it sit hand tight for an hour then torqued the bolts to 15 ft/lb. All went well, except for one bolt (of course) Pics below. Thankfully it's an "upper bolt", I'd assume the lower bolts near the inlet/outlet are the most important.

Essentially, I can get that one bolt past hand tight, but only about one revolution past, then the bolts "pops" for lack of a better word and it loses grip. If I back out the bolt and hand tighten again, I can feel it grip the threads and I cannot pull the bolt out, but if I go past that point where it "pops", I can't pull it out but it doesn't tighten anymore. If I put my finger on the back side of the timing cover, I can't feel anything odd, or metal filings etc. (No bolt either, but I wouldn't have expected that anyway) I have a feeling this damage was done in the past, but I'm not sure what could have caused it.

I'm guessing the advice is to tap a new hole for this bolt or getting a new timing cover? Or since it was like this before (although I was unaware of this behavior of this bolt) is it worth seeing if it's ok?

I replaced my original OEM water pump this past Summer. In the process broke one bolt off in the block and another in the timing chain cover. I got lucky on several of the other bolts, working them slowly after soaking with PB Blaster and even using heat. Lots of corrosion in there. Having said all that, I always chase the threads and use an anti-seize product as Jim mentioned.

Another thing, there are like 5-6 different bolt sizes that go into the water pump to secure it. You don't want to mix those up. If you look on the web, you'll find lots of chatter on that subject with pictures of the specific bolts and their respective sizes and locations.

I'm curious as to why you just didn't go ahead and remove the timing chain cover and inspect the timing chain while you were there? Maybe I missed that in another thread.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I replaced my original OEM water pump this past Summer. In the process broke one bolt off in the block and another in the timing chain cover. I got lucky on several of the other bolts, working them slowly after soaking with PB Blaster and even using heat. Lots of corrosion in there. Having said all that, I always chase the threads and use an anti-seize product as Jim mentioned.

Another thing, there are like 5-6 different bolt sizes that go into the water pump to secure it. You don't want to mix those up. If you look on the web, you'll find lots of chatter on that subject with pictures of the specific bolts and their respective sizes and locations.

I'm curious as to why you just didn't go ahead and remove the timing chain cover and inspect the timing chain while you were there? Maybe I missed that in another thread.

John, when I'm replacing a water pump I flip open the lid and make a rough sketch with sharpie, then poke a slot with a utility knife at each bolt location.

As the bolts come out I stick them through the cardboard lid.

I run them through the wire wheel one at a time so they can't get mixed up.

Then they get hit with Primer-T before Loctite PST on reinstall.

[Machspeed]

John, when I'm replacing a water pump I flip open the lid and make a rough sketch with sharpie, then poke a slot with a utility knife at each bolt location.

As the bolts come out I stick them through the cardboard lid.

I run them through the wire wheel one at a time so they can't get mixed up.

Then they get hit with Primer-T before Loctite PST on reinstall.

Jim, that is exactly what I did, step by step!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim, that is exactly what I did, step by step!

Saves any confusion about which bolt goes where.

[ckuske]

If that's the bolt I think it is and goes all the way through the timing cover and into a little open spot on the back, how about using a longer bolt with a nut on the back? It isn't the factory way, but tension is tension.

So I used a longer bolt from the previous set, and it grabbed. Same thread pitch as the new bolt, just longer. It sticks out about 1/4" past the hole in the timing cover, but there's nothing there so that's OK.

I did keep them in order (or at least I thought?!), so I'm not sure what the deal is. All I can figure is perhaps it was installed incorrectly last time???

I've ordered some longer stainless bolts, so I'll swap this out later before I install the fan, etc. Next step is painting the frame where the Rad support goes with some paint I have coming from Eastwood.

I feel a lot better now than where I was last night.

[ckuske]

I replaced my original OEM water pump this past Summer. In the process broke one bolt off in the block and another in the timing chain cover. I got lucky on several of the other bolts, working them slowly after soaking with PB Blaster and even using heat. Lots of corrosion in there. Having said all that, I always chase the threads and use an anti-seize product as Jim mentioned.

Another thing, there are like 5-6 different bolt sizes that go into the water pump to secure it. You don't want to mix those up. If you look on the web, you'll find lots of chatter on that subject with pictures of the specific bolts and their respective sizes and locations.

I'm curious as to why you just didn't go ahead and remove the timing chain cover and inspect the timing chain while you were there? Maybe I missed that in another thread.

John,

Good question, I guess two things for me.

A) The engine was rebuilt about 25,000 miles ago, so I figured it should be fine.

B) I'm still a bit nervous in the service about taking things off that I don't have to. This is the first water pump I've ever done. First gasket ever, too. Gotta start somewhere, but I thought taking the timing cover off and trying to get it back on and sealed up tight was something else that could go wrong and I didn't want to take the chance. I'm getting more confident, but still being conservative for now.

Thanks for the asking the question, it's totally valid. These are the things I'm learning as I get more proficient, and I know for next time.

[ArdWrknTrk]

So I used a longer bolt from the previous set, and it grabbed. Same thread pitch as the new bolt, just longer. It sticks out about 1/4" past the hole in the timing cover, but there's nothing there so that's OK.

I did keep them in order (or at least I thought?!), so I'm not sure what the deal is. All I can figure is perhaps it was installed incorrectly last time???

I've ordered some longer stainless bolts, so I'll swap this out later before I install the fan, etc. Next step is painting the frame where the Rad support goes with some paint I have coming from Eastwood.

I feel a lot better now than where I was last night.

Chris, I'm really glad you've got it holding now!

I'm not sure why the other one wouldn't, if you could feel it from the back side?

Those frame horns where the radiator support bushings go are always a weak spot.

Good you are getting after them while you can.

[ckuske]

Chris, I'm really glad you've got it holding now! :nabble_smiley_good:I'm not sure why the other one wouldn't, if you could feel it from the back side?Those frame horns where the radiator support bushings go are always a weak spot.Good you are getting after them while you can.

I couldn’t feel that bolt from the back side. On the hole that *did* bite, I couldnt feel it from the back either I don’t know. 

 

 

I just ordered a bolt 1/4” longer than the stainless one I had, should do the trick. 

 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 10:52 AM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

 

 

 

 

[ckuske]

I got my bumper and miscellaneous trim off, so I'm getting ready to start prepping the frame before painting with Eastwood Chassis Primer/Paint. I was hoping you guys could help me with a few questions:

Is there any inside knowledge I should know about removing the fender aprons?

Do they come out pretty easily if you remove the screws in the wheel well and near the door?

Also, has anyone painted these?

Any suggestions on a recommended paint to spruce them up?

And finally, my screws have been painted over so it's hard to tell if they are screws with a straight screwdriver slot or need a hex driver. What tools do I need to remove them?

I also just thought I'd post a progress photo, still cleaning and dressing up the engine but it's looking better.