Rethinking Dad's Truck

[Gary Lewis]

I've been rethinking how I want to finish Dad's truck, and thought I should get it down on "paper".

This has been rattling around in the back of my mind for some time, and I think last weekend caused it to crystalize.  The longer-term issue was how complicated the plans were, and then last weekend I saw some vehicles where things were put together with lots of thought and in a very "clean" or tidy way.

The plans have been to essentially clone what I did on Big Blue for Dad's truck, which means going with EEC-V EFI.  But remembering the very tedious work to do that on Big Blue has had me not wanting to get started on this project.  However the engine is sitting in the truck with a carb on it that was tested on the dyno so it is ready to go.  All it would take is a controller for the E4OD and I could put it all together.

Having said that, let's talk about the "clean" bit.  One of the things I really liked about many of the vehicles I saw at the show last weekend was how tidy things looked, meaning that things weren't crowded and wiring and hoses were run neatly.

So here's my thinking as of this point in time, with the goal being a very clean, but stock to the casual observer, look:

• Fuel System: Go with the current carb with the dual-snorkel air cleaner I made.  But I'm not sure I want to include the cold air ducting as that clutters up the engine compartment.  And use the 38 gallon rear tank I have so there's no need for a switching valve.  Just the mechanical pump on the engine.
   
• Electrical System: Use the 3G I built for the truck with 160A diodes and dual belts, and an aftermarket fuse/relay box tucked away, maybe below the battery, and housing relays for the headlights and HVAC blower.  The wiring cleaned up as compared to stock, meaning tucked away instead of running any which way.  I could do that in conjunction with removing the shunt for the 3G.  And a single battery sitting in a Bricknose tray.
   
• Underhood Toolbox: I have a pristine tool box that I could install if I don't go with EFI as there isn't room to do both the EFI's PDB and the toolbox.
   
• Exhaust: Not sure here.  Maybe shorty headers?

 

Thoughts, please?  

[thelastkeg]

I do enjoy working on vehicles but I enjoy driving them more.  So a lot of my own decisions are based on not getting it perfect, just getting it going.  I would definitely go with the carb since that gets you on the road quicker, plus I think carbs are kind of fun and it's a bonus that they're simpler.  I also like a mechanical fuel pump, and if I was installing a fuel system from scratch I would also only use a single tank. 

Cleaning up electrical sounds really nice.  I've wanted to do that on my 85 F250 and 86 F150, but so far I've avoided it.  Back to the "just get it going" - they run and drive and all, so that project is always on the backburner.  I do admire a cleaned up engine compartment though.  

[85lebaront2]

I would not put a fuse box under the battery unless it was in a marine battery box. (a) possible spills (b) accessability. 

Fuel system, how about something like a Holley (I know, I shouldn't use such language) Sniper. Those are essentially a throttle body system, so under the dual snorkel air cleaner it wouldn't be obvious. I believe they can include an E4OD interface. On fuel supply I have heard of people using dummy mechanical pumps to run the fuel line trhough so it "looks right". Return (if needed) could be run down the transmission dipstick tube like a C6 vacuum line. A different distributor may be needed on any aftermarket injection system. O2 sensors can be further down the pipes to be hard to spot and still function correctly (the 1990 F250's was clear back by the transmission crossmember).

[Gary Lewis]

Good points on the fuse/relay box, Bill.  I do want it to be accessible.  So maybe under the starter relay.

On the Sniper, a lot of people are going that way.  But I don't see a huge advantage in it for how I expect the truck to be used - going to shows.  I'm confident that the carb I have will work well as Tim tuned it.  And I have basically all the parts to go with the carb but would have to buy the Sniper, tank, pump, etc.  Plus there's the extra wiring that's needed.  Yes, it could be hidden - with effort.

So what do you see as the advantage of a Sniper?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I like your 'KISS' ideas for Dad's Truck.

I have my small relay box mounted in the space once occupied by the starter relay, with the 3G Mega fuse on it's side.

This has worked well for the few years it's been in place. I agree w/ Bill that I wouldn't want anything important directly under the battery. (even if it's a sealed gel cell)

[grumpin]

I agree with simple. For shows and occasional driving I would probably stick with a carb. 
 

Although a Sniper would be tempting for better starts and tuning.

 

I would not go with headers unless I wanted higher performance. Unless you don’t have the OE manifolds. 
 

I like under hood tool boxes!

[85lebaront2]

3 hours ago, Gary Lewis said:

Good points on the fuse/relay box, Bill.  I do want it to be accessible.  So maybe under the starter relay.

On the Sniper, a lot of people are going that way.  But I don't see a huge advantage in it for how I expect the truck to be used - going to shows.  I'm confident that the carb I have will work well as Tim tuned it.  And I have basically all the parts to go with the carb but would have to buy the Sniper, tank, pump, etc.  Plus there's the extra wiring that's needed.  Yes, it could be hidden - with effort.

So what do you see as the advantage of a Sniper?

 

That it doesn't dry out and need priming if not driven regularly, better mixture control, doesn't need readjusting with seasonal changes and may be easily integrated to interface with or even control the E4OD.

[Nothing Special]

You could go a bunch of different ways.  I'm not going to tell you what's best, you need to figure that out.

I think in the end you'll be happiest with the Ford EFI.  That best fits the goal you've stated of having a vehicle that your kids can use and just take to a shop for service.  But that assumes you can get to the end.  If the project seems too daunting it's not a good choice.

The carb is simple and will do everything you need it to.  You could get it going the quickest and would be very happy with its performance (although I think you'd be happier with the EFI).  Your kids might have more trouble dealing with it.  But there are still shops that can deal with carbs, they just might have to search a bit.  So does the ease of setup offset that it isn't quite what you were aiming for?

The Sniper seems like a good compromise between the two, if it can be almost as simple as the carb to get setup and running, and almost as simple as the factory EFI to run and maintain (for people who don't do carbs).  But I will say that I know of a few people on the old Jeep board I'm on that have tried to set up a 1 bbl Sniper on the stock 145 cubic inch flat head four Willys engine.  They seem to run into a lot of the issues you did getting the factory EFI working on Big blue, with things not being quite right and it being trickier than expected to correct.  Some of that they attribute to it being an unusual application, that it would be easier if they were sticking it on a small block Chevy (well, not the 1 bbl version) where there's a wealth of information, and more choices in base tunes.  But is your application any less unusual?

If it were me I'd go with the carb.  But I'm not you, and I don't share some of the goals you've stated.  So i don't know which way you should go.

But I am glad that Dad's Truck is going to be getting some love!

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, thanks for the input.  And please keep those cards and letters coming in.

Here's my current thinking on the fuel system:

• Carb: I have the carb and fuel tank.  Plus the associated filler neck.  Don't have the mechanical pump but that's easy and cheap.
   
• EFI: This truck wasn't wired for an electric pump.  There's no fuel pump relay, no inertia switch, or any of that, so that would be new wiring.  And I'd have to add a return to the fuel line.  Plus power to the EFI system and run the wires to the O2 sensors.  And I'd need to figure out what pump to run, but this tank is a Bullnose tank and the tab is in the wrong spot for the later FDM's that are working so well in Big Blue.  And then I'd have to have a MeterMatch so the sending unit would work with the gauge.  The Holley Sniper would work with the existing intake manifold, but the Ford EFI system would require changing out the intake, adding the fender-mounted air cleaner/MAF box, etc.  So the Holley would take less work, but still quite a bit.

For a truck that won't be driven much or often the benefits of EFI don't seem to be worth the climb.

[viven44]

1 hour ago, Gary Lewis said:

For a truck that won't be driven much or often the benefits of EFI don't seem to be worth the climb.

I was going to say exactly that for your show-quality truck. IMO Carbs may just show better to a wider audience on a classic truck at a show. 

Even on my daily drivers, driving 2000 miles / year each I just don't see ROI for a long time... carbs to me are also significantly easier to deal with for long-term maintenance. Even on trucks that sat forever (15+ years), all I had to do was toss the stock 'Holley' and plug-n-play a new Edelbrock and they just ran