Ford F834 Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 BumER! Did the thermostat slip out of the depression? Or is that one of the ones that the thermostat can't slip out and the pot metal just failed? And 1/4" is a lot of slop on a water pump pulley. I'm surprised you weren't spewing coolant past the seal. Yes, you need to give it some TLC. I'll bet it is lonely and its feelings are hurt. But glad you got it back on the road, sorta. I HATE fixes where you didn't really fix it as you know it'll come back to bite you at the worst possible time. Gary, the recess for the thermostat is in the housing, and yes I believe it is possible for it to slide out… but in my case I do not believe it did. I used the paper gasket plus a thin film of sealant. The sealant held the thermostat in the housing and it did not appear out of place. I simply believe that the housing is extremely weak, and that the compression of the paper gasket plus sealant is enough to cause problems. It just does not take much at all to crack the ear off… If I had any advice beyond finding a cast iron housing, it would be to use sealant only, and very little of it. I obviously did loose coolant out of the water pump, as evidenced by it overheating… but it was a gradual seep, as I never saw it. I think the three accessory belts kept the pump shaft from moving off axis. I am used to hearing grumbling, weep hole leakage, and metal screeching (non-belt noises) which didn’t happen this time. I am glad that the part could be shipped in next day from Las Vegas, and I didn’t have to be down for a long time. As these things get older and harder to get parts for, I will really want at least two running trucks capable of bringing water in case one breaks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Well 💩💩💩…… This is the second time I have had this failure in my life of owning straight sixes… both times I was being extremely gentle and snugging the two bolts alternately, a little at a time. Fortunately this time I had an older type, cast iron housing to replace it with. And fortunately I was able to find it when I needed it which I am hard pressed to do these days 😖. The down side is that the cast iron one has no provision for a temperature sensor (which I was using for my electric cluster gauge), and the heater hose nipple is short, so my existing heater hose no longer fit. Not a big deal except it’s our water truck and when your cistern is running low and it’s late evening on a Friday these are the kinds of road blocks you don’t want. Never again with the pot metal thermostat housing… for now I will just add the electric gauge to the list of things that don’t work. When I bought the new thermostat, the clerk suggested a fail safe. I was under the impression that most new units were designed to fail “open” but I guess not? We compared thermostats and the $6 to $12 ones did not have the mechanical provision but the $21 Fail Safe one did. It seemed like an excessive price difference for a couple brass tabs, but I guess the $15 will seem well spent if it fails on me in Bullhead City when it’s 122*F outside. The truck overheated and I saw bubbles coming from the thermostat housing gasket joint… but the root cause of the failure was the water pump. Odd thing is it didn’t give me any of the warning signs that I’m familiar with, except a bit of belt chirp that I often hear anyway. When I pulled the belts the fan pulley was rocking up and down almost 1/4” 😱. The old ‘81 still needs love, I went to start it after the water pump change and had zero power anywhere in the truck. Completely dead. Battery had over 12.3v but nothing in the cab. I cleaned the contacts and grounds, nada…. I fumbled about tracing wires and found nothing. Then as mysteriously as it died, it started working again… which allowed me to get a tank of water but that’s the very worst kind of “fix” 😬😬😬. There's never an opportune time for failure, is there? I'm glad to hear that you were able to get the 81 back on her feet and haul the water you need. It sure does sound like it was past time for a water pump. And surprising that there was no tell from the weep hole. Keep on keeping on! You've got this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 There's never an opportune time for failure, is there? I'm glad to hear that you were able to get the 81 back on her feet and haul the water you need. It sure does sound like it was past time for a water pump. And surprising that there was no tell from the weep hole. Keep on keeping on! You've got this. Good to hear it is up and running again. I have had water pumps do the same thing, all kinds of play and no leak Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Gary, the recess for the thermostat is in the housing, and yes I believe it is possible for it to slide out… but in my case I do not believe it did. I used the paper gasket plus a thin film of sealant. The sealant held the thermostat in the housing and it did not appear out of place. I simply believe that the housing is extremely weak, and that the compression of the paper gasket plus sealant is enough to cause problems. It just does not take much at all to crack the ear off… If I had any advice beyond finding a cast iron housing, it would be to use sealant only, and very little of it. I obviously did loose coolant out of the water pump, as evidenced by it overheating… but it was a gradual seep, as I never saw it. I think the three accessory belts kept the pump shaft from moving off axis. I am used to hearing grumbling, weep hole leakage, and metal screeching (non-belt noises) which didn’t happen this time. I am glad that the part could be shipped in next day from Las Vegas, and I didn’t have to be down for a long time. As these things get older and harder to get parts for, I will really want at least two running trucks capable of bringing water in case one breaks down. Jonathan - Man, having that thing just snap off is a real bummer. And apparently it isn't so unusual with those things. I hope you can keep that one running. But how close are you to getting another one going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Gary, the recess for the thermostat is in the housing, and yes I believe it is possible for it to slide out… but in my case I do not believe it did. I used the paper gasket plus a thin film of sealant. The sealant held the thermostat in the housing and it did not appear out of place. I simply believe that the housing is extremely weak, and that the compression of the paper gasket plus sealant is enough to cause problems. It just does not take much at all to crack the ear off… If I had any advice beyond finding a cast iron housing, it would be to use sealant only, and very little of it. I obviously did loose coolant out of the water pump, as evidenced by it overheating… but it was a gradual seep, as I never saw it. I think the three accessory belts kept the pump shaft from moving off axis. I am used to hearing grumbling, weep hole leakage, and metal screeching (non-belt noises) which didn’t happen this time. I am glad that the part could be shipped in next day from Las Vegas, and I didn’t have to be down for a long time. As these things get older and harder to get parts for, I will really want at least two running trucks capable of bringing water in case one breaks down. Hey Jon, I broke one of those darn things when I was building the 300 in my 1980. It happened so easily too...I was going easy, side to side, and it broke like nothing. Maybe it was already cracked and I didn't know until I started tightening it back on. I was even easier on the new replacement, and it went on OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted June 6, 2022 Author Share Posted June 6, 2022 Jonathan - Man, having that thing just snap off is a real bummer. And apparently it isn't so unusual with those things. I hope you can keep that one running. But how close are you to getting another one going? Cory, my experience was just like you said… the housing broke unbelievably easily… like a chocolate chip cookie or something. I don’t think I will ever have that problem with cast iron, I just don’t have the electric gauge now. But I have more important things to worry about. Gary, the F450 is officially on the short list. Not because of the problems with the ‘81… just because it is so badly needed to reduce the time I spend hauling water. My wife has not been well, so it has been hard for me to get things done. Putting a timing set and water pump in my Jetta is next, but “second-next” is the water truck. I will still need the ‘81 for a back up and for constructing the house, though, so it needs fixed. Today the no-power problem is coming and going. I have been trying to pinpoint it staring from the main power lead on the solenoid lug through all of the factory splices to the alternator and harness lead to the fuse block supply. Some of the wires are testing hot then cold. They have power one minute, then gone the next. I was assuming a broken wire, or failed factory splice, but those splices are pressed and soldered and cast into a rubber shield (not likely to separate) and that’s an awful large wire to have a bad enough problem to cause an intermittent open circuit. I am suspecting the battery cables even though I made sure they are clean and tight on the posts. It has never died while running (ie, power available from the alternator). The lead connectors on the battery cables are old, and the contact with the cable end might not be great (and I can’t see that). I’m sure folks are tired of hearing me say it but I really hate electrical problems. 😖 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Cory, my experience was just like you said… the housing broke unbelievably easily… like a chocolate chip cookie or something. I don’t think I will ever have that problem with cast iron, I just don’t have the electric gauge now. But I have more important things to worry about. Gary, the F450 is officially on the short list. Not because of the problems with the ‘81… just because it is so badly needed to reduce the time I spend hauling water. My wife has not been well, so it has been hard for me to get things done. Putting a timing set and water pump in my Jetta is next, but “second-next” is the water truck. I will still need the ‘81 for a back up and for constructing the house, though, so it needs fixed. Today the no-power problem is coming and going. I have been trying to pinpoint it staring from the main power lead on the solenoid lug through all of the factory splices to the alternator and harness lead to the fuse block supply. Some of the wires are testing hot then cold. They have power one minute, then gone the next. I was assuming a broken wire, or failed factory splice, but those splices are pressed and soldered and cast into a rubber shield (not likely to separate) and that’s an awful large wire to have a bad enough problem to cause an intermittent open circuit. I am suspecting the battery cables even though I made sure they are clean and tight on the posts. It has never died while running (ie, power available from the alternator). The lead connectors on the battery cables are old, and the contact with the cable end might not be great (and I can’t see that). I’m sure folks are tired of hearing me say it but I really hate electrical problems. 😖 Jonathan - Sorry to see that Sheri isn't well. Is it still from COVID? On the electrical problem, might it be a fuse link? They burn through inside the insulation and look like they are good, and the insulation can hold them together well enough to work now but not later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted June 6, 2022 Author Share Posted June 6, 2022 Jonathan - Sorry to see that Sheri isn't well. Is it still from COVID? On the electrical problem, might it be a fuse link? They burn through inside the insulation and look like they are good, and the insulation can hold them together well enough to work now but not later. Thanks Gary. Sheri’s health issue is RA, although this latest progression may well have been put into a tailspin by covid exposure, or from the vaccines. It does not help that the treatment for autoimmune is extremely expensive and the insurance companies are very good at dodging these costs. I will just leave it at that ☹️. On the electrical, that is a good thought on the fusible link, but I am seeing it upstream of any fuse links. I have experienced a bad one that looked okay under the hood of my diesel. Man that was frustrating, but at least it wasn’t intermittent. Today after work I think I am going to borrow some battery cables from the parts truck or the F450 and see if the behavior changes. If not I will probably try to make a new piece of wire harness between the solenoid lug, the alternator, the voltage regulator and the cab harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Thanks Gary. Sheri’s health issue is RA, although this latest progression may well have been put into a tailspin by covid exposure, or from the vaccines. It does not help that the treatment for autoimmune is extremely expensive and the insurance companies are very good at dodging these costs. I will just leave it at that ☹️. On the electrical, that is a good thought on the fusible link, but I am seeing it upstream of any fuse links. I have experienced a bad one that looked okay under the hood of my diesel. Man that was frustrating, but at least it wasn’t intermittent. Today after work I think I am going to borrow some battery cables from the parts truck or the F450 and see if the behavior changes. If not I will probably try to make a new piece of wire harness between the solenoid lug, the alternator, the voltage regulator and the cab harness. Yes, COVID does cause problems with other diseases. Janey has Sjogren's and/or Lupus, both of which are autoimmune disorders like RA. She came down with something that had all the hallmarks of COVID a few months ago, and while she tested negative we still think it might well have been. Anyway, she shared it with me and I had it for about 10 days. But she had it for about 4 weeks and had a lot stronger symptoms. So I'm pretty sure that was due to the Sjogren's and/or the drugs she's taking to keep it in control. As for the electrical system, good luck! You have have a bad battery cable where the wire meets the connector, so changing them out may well prove and solve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Yes, COVID does cause problems with other diseases. Janey has Sjogren's and/or Lupus, both of which are autoimmune disorders like RA. She came down with something that had all the hallmarks of COVID a few months ago, and while she tested negative we still think it might well have been. Anyway, she shared it with me and I had it for about 10 days. But she had it for about 4 weeks and had a lot stronger symptoms. So I'm pretty sure that was due to the Sjogren's and/or the drugs she's taking to keep it in control. As for the electrical system, good luck! You have have a bad battery cable where the wire meets the connector, so changing them out may well prove and solve that. I found that a long blad screw driver going down the goose neck and through the thermostat (gently!) Can helpbretain the tgermostat in the housing until its snugged down. Its also worth noting that the torque spec for the fasteners for the thermostat housing (atleast on a 300, and from memory) is 18 ftlbs. Not much. Sorry to hear your wife isnt feeling well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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