Gary Lewis Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Folks, I'd like to start a debate here on what we should be recommending and have documented regarding 3G conversions. (I want to keep this to "3G" rather than 1-wire as that adds complexity. We can address the 1-wire after we sort through this.) Our recommendations and schematics have been for a significant changeout, including a megafuse, voltmeter instead of ammeter, and a key-on relay. But many people want to convert w/o doing all of that, so I'm beginning to think that we need to have three or four different scenarios. Something like the following with advantages, disadvantages, and schematics included: Quick & Dirty: This would be for those that want a 3G but don't want to do any other work. In that case they could just take the alternator output to the starter relay - without a fuse. I personally don't think this is a good idea, so maybe we shouldn't even mention it? As for advantages and disadvantages, one disadvantage would be that the ammeter would only show discharge, so would be worthless. But an advantage would be that everything would be there in case you wanted to go back with a 1 or 2G. Bare Minimum: As above with a megafuse. And maybe this is really "bare minimum"? If so, should we ditch the Quick & Dirty approach? Cleaned Up: In this case they could unplug connector 610, bring wire 37 (Y) from S101 to the battery + stud of the fender mounted starter relay, and bring the fused output of alternator there as well. But you'd still have an ammeter that was worthless as now it'll never move at all. And you can't easily go back to a 1 or 2G. Done Right: This is the one we've been describing for years, with a megafuse, voltmeter, etc. The advantage over Cleaned Up is that you can tell that the alternator is working because of the voltmeter. But a disadvantage is that you've now altered the wiring so going back would be difficult. Maybe we don't need Quick & Dirty and just go with Bare Minimum as we can't recommend doing it w/o a fuse. But I wanted to get that out there to see what y'all think. If we had three or four options, with schematics and advantages/disadvantages, then we would be able to answer the questions we get of "but why can't we" do this or that. We'd have thought through solutions that take into account "this or that", at least for the most part. And then people could chose their poison. Thoughts, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Subscribed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 But many people want to convert w/o doing all of that, so I'm beginning to think that we need to have three or four different scenarios. No suggestion to share about any possible scenarios. But if this section could include a “special chapter for lazy mechanics” I would subscribe, even if more expansive way to go. I love the plug’n play upgrades, such as Daniel Stern’s headlights and pre-built harness/relays, or Lee steering pump, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Gary, if someone didn't want to modify the cluster, an aftermarket voltmeter could be installed under dash or in an A pillar pod. Voltmeters are a far better indicator of charging system health with an alternator, just be sure it is connected to an ignition switched source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrother-84 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Gary, if someone didn't want to modify the cluster, an aftermarket voltmeter could be installed under dash or in an A pillar pod. Voltmeters are a far better indicator of charging system health with an alternator, just be sure it is connected to an ignition switched source. Bill, did you receive my January 9th email? Talking about carb shipping… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Bill, did you receive my January 9th email? Talking about carb shipping… Apparently not, I couldn't find anything from you on 9 January 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Gary, if someone didn't want to modify the cluster, an aftermarket voltmeter could be installed under dash or in an A pillar pod. Voltmeters are a far better indicator of charging system health with an alternator, just be sure it is connected to an ignition switched source. A decent voltmeter cost more than Rocket man's calibrated stock uni until the advent of cheap electronics from 'over there's While it is a bit of a fuss to open the cluster and swap the gauge, you've got to admit it does look the part and you know it is properly tested. I (personally) can't stand digital instruments. Your brain doesn't need to process where a needle is pointing. You don't even need to be able to read the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 A decent voltmeter cost more than Rocket man's calibrated stock uni until the advent of cheap electronics from 'over there's While it is a bit of a fuss to open the cluster and swap the gauge, you've got to admit it does look the part and you know it is properly tested. I (personally) can't stand digital instruments. Your brain doesn't need to process where a needle is pointing. You don't even need to be able to read the numbers. Bill - Yes, an aftermarket voltmeter could be added. But I don't like non-functioning things on my truck, so don't want that gauge to sit there and do nothing. So I personally prefer that the ammeter be converted to a voltmeter which, as you said, is a far better indicator of charging system health. But if someone wanted to go aftermarket they could use the Cleaned Up approach, meaning unplug and remove the C610 harness and just add their own voltmeter. Jim - It is a hassle to pull the cluster and swap the gauge out, but less hassle than stuck on the side of the road because the alternator quit and you couldn't tell. Been there, done that. And another hassle is wiring up the key-on relay. So what about an option to power the voltmeter with the LG/R wire instead of a relay? As you know, that's not my preference as I want to know the voltage at the battery and not in the cab, which fluctuates with the accessories that are on. But some may prefer that over wiring in a relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Bill - Yes, an aftermarket voltmeter could be added. But I don't like non-functioning things on my truck, so don't want that gauge to sit there and do nothing. So I personally prefer that the ammeter be converted to a voltmeter which, as you said, is a far better indicator of charging system health. But if someone wanted to go aftermarket they could use the Cleaned Up approach, meaning unplug and remove the C610 harness and just add their own voltmeter. Jim - It is a hassle to pull the cluster and swap the gauge out, but less hassle than stuck on the side of the road because the alternator quit and you couldn't tell. Been there, done that. And another hassle is wiring up the key-on relay. So what about an option to power the voltmeter with the LG/R wire instead of a relay? As you know, that's not my preference as I want to know the voltage at the battery and not in the cab, which fluctuates with the accessories that are on. But some may prefer that over wiring in a relay. Certainly making a U of wire and jumping 904 lg/r to 655 r/o on the cab side of C610 would make the most sense to anyone. Cut 654 y/lg near the cluster connector C208A and take it to ground when you install the voltmeter (nee ammeter) If there isn't a cluster ground there is one for the intermittent wiper switch or G701 behind the radio.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Certainly making a U of wire and jumping 904 lg/r to 655 r/o on the cab side of C610 would make the most sense to anyone. Cut 654 y/lg near the cluster connector C208A and take it to ground when you install the voltmeter (nee ammeter) If there isn't a cluster ground there is one for the intermittent wiper switch or G701 behind the radio.. I'm not high on grounding 654 in the dash as there's not much room to work there. However, it is an option and could be explained that way. My preference would be to salvage the C610 connector from the removed harness and splice on some wire to the short piece of Y/LG there and take that to ground. Then do the U there on that side of C610 for LG/R to R/O and, while at it, extend that wire to the alternator. Similarly, use the piece of Y for Ckt 37 coming out of C610 and put a ring-tongue terminal on the end of it to go to the megafuse's stud. All of that work could be done on the bench and then plugged in to the truck. In fact, that is something that someone could make up and sell - a kit with a voltmeter from Rocketman and a C610 replacement harness and you'd have a plug & play 3G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts