Alternator Upgrade Related Questions (was One-Wire Alternator Questions)

[dirtymac]

1-wire alternators have to be self exciting, because there is no key on power going to the field.

This means they can't energize the windings until the unit is spinning and that there is a threshold rpm to produce any output, and that output is somewhat proportional to rpm.

Now, once spun up they can be wound to put out a good amount of power.

But remember that regardless of stated Max power they will only provide what's needed to keep the trucks electrical system at the set point (usually 14.3-14.5V)

A 1, 2 or 3G alternator has a sense wire (y/w)

A stator wire (w/b)... also used for choke, or in the case of a 351H.O. to trip a choke relay

An exciter wire (lg/r) that provides key on power to kickstart the alternator output.... rather than relying on it to bootstrap itself.

An output wire or* cable, usually bk/or

Thank you for the explanation! It helps a lot.

[Gary Lewis]

Having all three of these in one place does make it a lot easier to understand what is going on. I agree that having the actual colors marked on the schematic would help. It definitely looks easier on paper but in my case that could just be due to the rats nest of a mess I have under the hood.

I appreciate all of the work you all are doing on this and I know the community does as well.

You might benefit from reading our discussion about rethinking the 3G pages here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Rethinking-The-3G-Conversion-Pages-Process-td144886.html#a144965. And I know we'd benefit from your thoughts on it since many of us are quite familiar with wiring, 3G upgrades, etc. So having you tell us what you think would be very helpful.

[ArdWrknTrk]

this sure is starting to look easy on paper. I still struggle with explaining something like electricity that cannot be seen until it's too late. never an engineer but many years servicing in the field and everyone's thought process can be a little different.

It's easier to do than talk about. 👍

Gary always wants to OVER engineer everything.

I'm of the mind that if it works, and is not any danger down the line, it's fine.

(remember, there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution that works.)

I grew up autistic, with an electronic engineer for a father.

I could bin resistors by colour code at 5.

I look at a schematic like a map and become an electron heading heading down a highway, turning left onto a windy rural road, hitting stop signs and one way junctions along the way to my destination.

[mat in tn]

this sure is starting to look easy on paper. I still struggle with explaining something like electricity that cannot be seen until it's too late. never an engineer but many years servicing in the field and everyone's thought process can be a little different.

It's easier to do than talk about. 👍

Gary always wants to OVER engineer everything.

I'm of the mind that if it works, and is not any danger down the line, it's fine.

(remember, there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution that works.)

I grew up autistic, with an electronic engineer for a father.

I could bin resistors by colour code at 5.

I look at a schematic like a map and become an electron heading heading down a highway, turning left onto a windy rural road, hitting stop signs and one way junctions along the way to my destination.

I'm not quite there but I did learn map reading growing up a child of an on the road family band in new England. so, I look at everything like a map. even maps! I hate gps. I still map out where I'm going and often drive by memory from the map I read before leaving. I have been delayed by missing/stolen road signs but never defeated. on the highway, I always know where I am. exits, mile markers etc. I do follow schematics the same way. but when 47 different colored wires enter a wrapped bundle and t you can't see where they went., I still get stalled and must slow down and follow the basics. it is easier for me to wire the entire truck than trace down a glitch sometimes.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not quite there but I did learn map reading growing up a child of an on the road family band in new England. so, I look at everything like a map. even maps! I hate gps. I still map out where I'm going and often drive by memory from the map I read before leaving. I have been delayed by missing/stolen road signs but never defeated. on the highway, I always know where I am. exits, mile markers etc. I do follow schematics the same way. but when 47 different colored wires enter a wrapped bundle and t you can't see where they went., I still get stalled and must slow down and follow the basics. it is easier for me to wire the entire truck than trace down a glitch sometimes.

I'm guilty of just running an overlay rather than stripping an entire harness to find a fault (short or open)

[solid State Module] is a map with "Thar b Dragon's ere" smack in the middle of your route.

My little brother has problems with his Altima not starting with the pushbutton.

The PMGR has a cascade of two relays before the solenoid on the starter.

There's also a circuit breaker at the battery+, a IPDM, a shift lever position sensor, PCM, BCM and another security module built in the cluster.... all between the button and the starter.

I think the BCM is bad (behind the cluster) because the dash will randomly fail to go to sleep, like the door is open, but the 500ma draw goes unnoticed and kills the battery after sitting.

And if the battery is disconnected for any length of time the entire car resets and the problem goes away.

He doesn't want to pay, so my only advice is to get a battery disconnect like a race car.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm guilty of just running an overlay rather than stripping an entire harness to find a fault (short or open)

[solid State Module] is a map with "Thar b Dragon's ere" smack in the middle of your route.

My little brother has problems with his Altima not starting with the pushbutton.

The PMGR has a cascade of two relays before the solenoid on the starter.

There's also a circuit breaker at the battery+, a IPDM, a shift lever position sensor, PCM, BCM and another security module built in the cluster.... all between the button and the starter.

I think the BCM is bad (behind the cluster) because the dash will randomly fail to go to sleep, like the door is open, but the 500ma draw goes unnoticed and kills the battery after sitting.

And if the battery is disconnected for any length of time the entire car resets and the problem goes away.

He doesn't want to pay, so my only advice is to get a battery disconnect like a race car.

We bought a new Murano in 2011 and took it on a drive to SE Okiehoma the very next day to see the fall foliage. Taking a walk that evening a guy asked if that was our car that had the lights on. Sure enough, it was so I started it and made sure everything was set correctly when I turned it off.

But the next morning the battery was DEAD. After getting a jump we took it directly back to the dealer and told them it was their car. They kept it in a dark corner of the shop for a week and every once in a while the headlights would come on. Turns out Nissan had a problem with the body control modules. They got the last replacement in the US at the time and it fixed the problem.

[ArdWrknTrk]

We bought a new Murano in 2011 and took it on a drive to SE Okiehoma the very next day to see the fall foliage. Taking a walk that evening a guy asked if that was our car that had the lights on. Sure enough, it was so I started it and made sure everything was set correctly when I turned it off.

But the next morning the battery was DEAD. After getting a jump we took it directly back to the dealer and told them it was their car. They kept it in a dark corner of the shop for a week and every once in a while the headlights would come on. Turns out Nissan had a problem with the body control modules. They got the last replacement in the US at the time and it fixed the problem.

$2'500 car,

$1,000 module (if I can get one) and I need to completely disassemble the interior to remove the cluster.

That involves numerous airbags, the steering column, the dash that melted into paste years ago (polymer degradation, a known issue)

It's not a problem I want to get into for free.

In fact, you couldn't pay me enough at this point.

I'm glad it's nothing I had done.

[dirtymac]

It has been raining here all week and with no garage, I have not managed to get much done on the truck. I did spend some time last night removing my coffee can to provide more access to the starter relay and the alternator wiring. The can has been unplugged for some time and I'm pretty sure it's rusted out.

At some point, the previous owner had someone install relay between the C610 and the electric choke. I'm not sure why, but I do think the relay is toast. I tried to remove it from it's socket and it fell apart. It's heavily corroded inside. They also added a fuse to one of the wires. Overall, I think this section of wiring may be in better shape than I previously thought. I did clean it a bit.

Here are some pics from the starer relay and C610 back to the added relay and alternator harness. Some are before I cleaned anything up:

[Gary Lewis]

It has been raining here all week and with no garage, I have not managed to get much done on the truck. I did spend some time last night removing my coffee can to provide more access to the starter relay and the alternator wiring. The can has been unplugged for some time and I'm pretty sure it's rusted out.

At some point, the previous owner had someone install relay between the C610 and the electric choke. I'm not sure why, but I do think the relay is toast. I tried to remove it from it's socket and it fell apart. It's heavily corroded inside. They also added a fuse to one of the wires. Overall, I think this section of wiring may be in better shape than I previously thought. I did clean it a bit.

Here are some pics from the starer relay and C610 back to the added relay and alternator harness. Some are before I cleaned anything up:

Will - It looks like your engine-side C610 is good enough to use in the scenario we are talking about. Would you want to try it?

[dirtymac]

Will - It looks like your engine-side C610 is good enough to use in the scenario we are talking about. Would you want to try it?

Which one of the three =)