Motor Mount Perches/Towers - 1980 F-150 2WD

[Bronco638]

This deserves its own thread, I think. I have an '80 F-150 2WD Flare Side. Original drivetrain was 351M/C6. The engine was bad and removed/discarded by the previous owner. I have the C6 but cannot use it because I plan to install a 302 (& AOD). The more I research, whether I need different motor mount perches, the more confusing things become:

If you're going with a 302, you're going to want to change the perches on the frame as 351M/400 perches are at a different angle and your engine won't fit them well, if at all.

That is contrary to what I've seen based on comparing my perches to ones that supported a 302. Here's an image of the engine compartment of my truck:

Here's a screen capture from YouTube of a guy that pulled a 302 out of his F-100:

Those perches look the same as mine, IMHO.

There's more info HERE.

So, what's the difference between the E0TZ 6028-C (302 passenger side) and E0TZ 6028-A (351M passenger side) and E0TZ 6029-C (302 driver side) and E0TZ 6029-A (351M driver side)? They sure look very similar (based on pictures posted on that web page).

Jeff's Bronco Graveyard has the perches for 302-351W, 351M-400 but makes the distinction that those are for 4WD only (no distinction between Windsor blocks and 351M/400 blocks). They say there's a difference between 2WD and 4WD frames. Ford doesn't make that distinction (based on data at the above link).

I guess this is going to boil down to a test fit with engine and transmission. I plan to at least have the sheet metal forward of the firewall off when I test fit the drivetrain. I may even opt to have the cab off, too. It'll make install/removal (if necessary) simple.

Anyone have any additional insight?

[Gary Lewis]

The perches for each engine series are different as they all have different part numbers. As for the actual differences, you won't be able to determine them from a picture. However, we've measured the differences and recorded them for the 300 and the M-block engines on the Measurements tab on our page called ENGINE PERCHES/STANDS/BRACKETS. Perhaps someone can measure the Windsor engine perches as installed and enlighten us? Or you can after you find and install a pair? If so I'll update the spreadsheet.

[mat in tn]

The perches for each engine series are different as they all have different part numbers. As for the actual differences, you won't be able to determine them from a picture. However, we've measured the differences and recorded them for the 300 and the M-block engines on the Measurements tab on our page called ENGINE PERCHES/STANDS/BRACKETS. Perhaps someone can measure the Windsor engine perches as installed and enlighten us? Or you can after you find and install a pair? If so I'll update the spreadsheet.

i have a running chassis in the garage waiting for a cab. I will try to get a few measurements as they are easy to see at this time.

[Gary Lewis]

i have a running chassis in the garage waiting for a cab. I will try to get a few measurements as they are easy to see at this time.

Mat - Please try to measure the same way we’ve done it so we can compare.

[mat in tn]

Mat - Please try to measure the same way we’ve done it so we can compare.

where will I find the measurements to duplicate?

[ArdWrknTrk]

where will I find the measurements to duplicate?

https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/engine-perches.html

They're in the tab labeled Measurements..

[salans7]

Ford engineers don't always make the best decisions, but if they created separate perches for the 351M/400 from the 302/351W, they had a reason. The 302 had been around since the 60s (289), so they knew how to put it in a vehicle. The 335 series engines had also been around since 1970 (351C), and they also knew what it took to fit them in a vehicle.

I once pulled the below pictured 351M/400 out of a 1987 Ford Bronco so I could rob the oil pan for a 400M swap into my 1980 F150. I ended up grabbing the perches too (they were stamped 351M/400 and bolted in), because whoever put that 351M/400 in the Bronco had realized the factory 302/351W perches wouldn't work. Why else would they go through all of the trouble to knock out the bucked rivets?

I went down this same road you're going when I was thinking of just using 302/351W perches as they were more common. I was assured by multiple people who had done this swap and vice versa that the perches are shaped at different angles, and thus will not work without modifying them. That's where my info comes from.

There's also a reason why the perches are stamped 351M/400.

It is entirely possible to modify your existing perches to fit a 289/302/351W. But it is entirely easier to just find a set of 302/351W perches and not even bother modifying what you have.

The reason why you can't see the difference is because it's not the biggest difference. However when it comes to fitting a different engine, little differences such as this can make a big difference when it comes to things like oil pan clearance.

[mat in tn]

Mat - Please try to measure the same way we’ve done it so we can compare.

I will see how similar I can get with engine in place.

[Bronco638]

Ford engineers don't always make the best decisions, but if they created separate perches for the 351M/400 from the 302/351W, they had a reason. The 302 had been around since the 60s (289), so they knew how to put it in a vehicle. The 335 series engines had also been around since 1970 (351C), and they also knew what it took to fit them in a vehicle.

I once pulled the below pictured 351M/400 out of a 1987 Ford Bronco so I could rob the oil pan for a 400M swap into my 1980 F150. I ended up grabbing the perches too (they were stamped 351M/400 and bolted in), because whoever put that 351M/400 in the Bronco had realized the factory 302/351W perches wouldn't work. Why else would they go through all of the trouble to knock out the bucked rivets?

I went down this same road you're going when I was thinking of just using 302/351W perches as they were more common. I was assured by multiple people who had done this swap and vice versa that the perches are shaped at different angles, and thus will not work without modifying them. That's where my info comes from.

There's also a reason why the perches are stamped 351M/400.

It is entirely possible to modify your existing perches to fit a 289/302/351W. But it is entirely easier to just find a set of 302/351W perches and not even bother modifying what you have.

The reason why you can't see the difference is because it's not the biggest difference. However when it comes to fitting a different engine, little differences such as this can make a big difference when it comes to things like oil pan clearance.

This makes a lot more sense now.

Matt: I believe there's an app you can download to your phone (there may be several, actually) that will turn your phone into a level. If you could determine the angle of the Windsor perches, that would go a long ways towards solving this. I'm guessing the physical measurements will be very similar between the Windsor perches and the Cleveland perches.

[mat in tn]

This makes a lot more sense now.

Matt: I believe there's an app you can download to your phone (there may be several, actually) that will turn your phone into a level. If you could determine the angle of the Windsor perches, that would go a long ways towards solving this. I'm guessing the physical measurements will be very similar between the Windsor perches and the Cleveland perches.

I'm trying to use my phone less every day. however, I do have tools to measure. I did not realize just how much I have put stuff in my own way around this chassis. I just moved a bunch to make room to do an engine swap in an E250. that took up a lot more room than my flareside:nabble_laughing-25-x-25_orig:

I should be able to access it this weekend. sorry for the delay.