ArdWrknTrk Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 It doesn't take two times as much alcohol to make the same power, it takes twice as much alcohol to have a stochiometric burn. (Edit 11.7:1 for isopropyl, 9:1 for ethanol and 6.45:1 for methanol) Alcohols have a much higher octane than hydrocarbons.... like somewhere above 110 That's how alcohol dragsters can run such high compression, and make so much power. But that also means they get 1/2 the fuel mileage they would get on hydrocarbon race fuel. This doesn't matter much if you only have to drive 1/4 mile at a time The corn subsidy is federally mandated at 10%. It costs more than petroleum. The oil companies aren't interested is using any more than they have to. Methanol has 110 octane rating and ethanol 114. The E10 fuel we buy today is blended to 84 octane and the 10% ethanol brings it up to 87 R+M/2 which is sold as regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1986F150Six Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 David was running 87 octane pure gas. No ethanol. On yours, you may be getting carbon deposits from the oil. Or maybe running way rich. Sorry that I am late to the party... When I first arrived in Skiatook, the timing on a recurved distributor was @ 17+ degrees BTDC. The fuel mileage was good, but there was an occasional drag when starting. The ignition was handled with a MDS 6A ignition box. Gary did magic on the vacuum advance. We drove while Gary monitored AF ratios [up to 17:1]. When I left, the timing was a "fat" 14 degrees BTDC. The truck routinely consumed 87 octane gasohol. Gary, when you and I had our gas mileage comparison between my truck and "Blue", we both used 100% regular [87 octane] from the same pump. This was to limit the variables and that was the fuel you use in your truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 David was running 87 octane pure gas. No ethanol. On yours, you may be getting carbon deposits from the oil. Or maybe running way rich. Sorry that I am late to the party... When I first arrived in Skiatook, the timing on a recurved distributor was @ 17+ degrees BTDC. The fuel mileage was good, but there was an occasional drag when starting. The ignition was handled with a MDS 6A ignition box. Gary did magic on the vacuum advance. We drove while Gary monitored AF ratios [up to 17:1]. When I left, the timing was a "fat" 14 degrees BTDC. The truck routinely consumed 87 octane gasohol. Gary, when you and I had our gas mileage comparison between my truck and "Blue", we both used 100% regular [87 octane] from the same pump. This was to limit the variables and that was the fuel you use in your truck. Thanks for the correction on the gas, David. I knew we filled up at the same pump and it was 100% gas, but forgot that we did the adjusting and testing on an earlier tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1986F150Six Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Thanks for the correction on the gas, David. I knew we filled up at the same pump and it was 100% gas, but forgot that we did the adjusting and testing on an earlier tank. Yes, earlier year, when we met at your home! OK GTG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 Thanks for the correction on the gas, David. I knew we filled up at the same pump and it was 100% gas, but forgot that we did the adjusting and testing on an earlier tank. Yes, earlier year, when we met at your home! OK GTG! Thanks guys. I picked up a timing light so I just got to get the truck in to install the AFR gauge and go over timing more. Don't think I will get to it this weekend cold & raining calls for staying in the dry warm house. LOL Dave. ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1986F150Six Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Thanks guys. I picked up a timing light so I just got to get the truck in to install the AFR gauge and go over timing more. Don't think I will get to it this weekend cold & raining calls for staying in the dry warm house. LOL Dave. ---- I just found this: 9-13-2014, 08:33 PM Gary Lewis's Avatar Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is offline Posting Legend Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northeast, OK Posts: 32,860 Gary Lewis has a spectacular reputation. Results We played with David's truck today to determine what his AFR is and what his timing is. First, we installed my AEM wideband meter and looked at the AFR: Idle: Once warmed up it was about 12.5:1 Cruise: At 62 where he ususally runs it was in the mid-15's on level ground, but climbing hills it got as high as 17.0 at one point. Power: Once the throttle was open it went as low as 11.5 but normally at about 12.0 - 12.5. That said the carb, a 1970 YF carb off of an F350, is jetted just right. It really shouldn't be any leaner, but the truck runs well so it isn't too lean. And it certainly isn't rich. Then we checked the timing. The initial timing was set at 18 degrees, which was getting good MPG but made the engine slightly hard to start sometimes. And, it pinged at full throttle, so the overall timing was too much. As for the mechanical timing, at 1700 RPM where David cruises it was giving 10 more degrees advance. Then we checked the vacuum advance and found that it was starting to advance at 10" and was giving a total of 18 degrees 16" of vacuum, and at the 14" of vacuum the truck had at 62 MPH the advance was 12 degrees. So, total advance at 1700 was 18+10+12=40. Then we turned the vacuum advance two turns clockwise, which made the vacuum start coming in at 8", gave the full advance of 18 degees advance at 14". Then we set the initial timing to 17 degrees, and the drive determined that it pinged both at part throttle as well as full throttle. So we put the initial timing at 14+, giving a total of 14+10+18 = 42 degrees at 1700 RPM. And the truck felt happier with that setting than it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1986F150Six Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I just found this: 9-13-2014, 08:33 PM Gary Lewis's Avatar Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is offline Posting Legend Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northeast, OK Posts: 32,860 Gary Lewis has a spectacular reputation. Results We played with David's truck today to determine what his AFR is and what his timing is. First, we installed my AEM wideband meter and looked at the AFR: Idle: Once warmed up it was about 12.5:1 Cruise: At 62 where he ususally runs it was in the mid-15's on level ground, but climbing hills it got as high as 17.0 at one point. Power: Once the throttle was open it went as low as 11.5 but normally at about 12.0 - 12.5. That said the carb, a 1970 YF carb off of an F350, is jetted just right. It really shouldn't be any leaner, but the truck runs well so it isn't too lean. And it certainly isn't rich. Then we checked the timing. The initial timing was set at 18 degrees, which was getting good MPG but made the engine slightly hard to start sometimes. And, it pinged at full throttle, so the overall timing was too much. As for the mechanical timing, at 1700 RPM where David cruises it was giving 10 more degrees advance. Then we checked the vacuum advance and found that it was starting to advance at 10" and was giving a total of 18 degrees 16" of vacuum, and at the 14" of vacuum the truck had at 62 MPH the advance was 12 degrees. So, total advance at 1700 was 18+10+12=40. Then we turned the vacuum advance two turns clockwise, which made the vacuum start coming in at 8", gave the full advance of 18 degees advance at 14". Then we set the initial timing to 17 degrees, and the drive determined that it pinged both at part throttle as well as full throttle. So we put the initial timing at 14+, giving a total of 14+10+18 = 42 degrees at 1700 RPM. And the truck felt happier with that setting than it has. And this: #14 Add to Gary Lewis's Reputation Report Post Old 09-14-2014, 07:00 AM Gary Lewis's Avatar Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is offline Posting Legend Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northeast, OK Posts: 32,860 Gary Lewis has a spectacular reputation. David is on his way home as of about 6:00 this morning. And, he was wearing a smile. His only concern was whether to get gas here, making this tank lower MPG due to the ~40 miles of testing we did, or getting gas at the end of the range to pull this tank's average up. Obviously there are swings and roundabouts in that, but the fact that he's thinking about those things shows his attention to detail. And, he is very thorough. He pulled receipts from his wallet for the last six or so tanks of fuel and each had notes on it describing the conditions under which the tank was burned. Like "hot" or "75 miles of city" or "all highway". And one notes when he re-installed the chin spoiler, which has made a noticeable difference. So, I'm confident we will get a good and accurate report on his MPG. For the records, here are our notes: Overall Timing On arrival: Initial: 18 degrees Centrifugal: 10 @ 1700 RPM/62 MPH Vacuum:12 @ 14" Total: 40 degrees @ 62 MPH on level ground On departure: Initial: 14+ degrees Centrifugal: 10 @ 1700 RPM/62 MPH Vacuum: 18 degrees @ 14" Total: 42 degrees @ 62 MPH Vacuum Advance: On arrival: 10" = 8 degrees (advance starts here) 12" = 10 14" = 12 15" = 16 16" = 18 (max) On departure (2 turns) 8" = 7 degrees (advance starts here) 10" = 10 12" = 14 14" = 18 degrees (max) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 And this: #14 Add to Gary Lewis's Reputation Report Post Old 09-14-2014, 07:00 AM Gary Lewis's Avatar Gary Lewis Gary Lewis is offline Posting Legend Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northeast, OK Posts: 32,860 Gary Lewis has a spectacular reputation. David is on his way home as of about 6:00 this morning. And, he was wearing a smile. His only concern was whether to get gas here, making this tank lower MPG due to the ~40 miles of testing we did, or getting gas at the end of the range to pull this tank's average up. Obviously there are swings and roundabouts in that, but the fact that he's thinking about those things shows his attention to detail. And, he is very thorough. He pulled receipts from his wallet for the last six or so tanks of fuel and each had notes on it describing the conditions under which the tank was burned. Like "hot" or "75 miles of city" or "all highway". And one notes when he re-installed the chin spoiler, which has made a noticeable difference. So, I'm confident we will get a good and accurate report on his MPG. For the records, here are our notes: Overall Timing On arrival: Initial: 18 degrees Centrifugal: 10 @ 1700 RPM/62 MPH Vacuum:12 @ 14" Total: 40 degrees @ 62 MPH on level ground On departure: Initial: 14+ degrees Centrifugal: 10 @ 1700 RPM/62 MPH Vacuum: 18 degrees @ 14" Total: 42 degrees @ 62 MPH Vacuum Advance: On arrival: 10" = 8 degrees (advance starts here) 12" = 10 14" = 12 15" = 16 16" = 18 (max) On departure (2 turns) 8" = 7 degrees (advance starts here) 10" = 10 12" = 14 14" = 18 degrees (max) Who is THAT Gary Lewis! What did he do to get a spectacular reputation? Anyway, good find, David. Good documentation for Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Who is THAT Gary Lewis! What did he do to get a spectacular reputation? Anyway, good find, David. Good documentation for Dave. Thanks for the information going to have to read it a few time for it to really sink in. In the first post on the timing you went from a total of 40 and pinging to a total of 42 and no pinging? Again I have to re-read but was the timing at 1700 driving RPM now lower but higher at a higher RPM? I also see I need to break out the vacuum gauge and do a little driving to see where the motor is at for the RPM / MPH What I may do is stop the pining for now, recheck with dial back light and adjust vacuum can, then when my work hours are less and I have 2 day weekends I will get into it deeper. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas75 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Dave, did you replace the front cab supports when you did the floors, rockers and cab corners? I’m looking for information on how easy or difficult that was. I think I will have to replace all of those things in my future. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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