Carburetor feedback needed

[ArdWrknTrk]

I would like to check the timing chain while I have the balancer off. From things I have read, if I remove the timing chain cover, I might have to pull the oil pan to get it back on. I'm pretty sure that will require pulling or lifting the engine, and I can't do either of those currently. Those are things I may have to wait on my mechanic for.

No, you don't need to remove the pan. You need to remove the two bolts through the pan on either side of the crank nose.

Edit!!! I hadn't realized you have a 400.

Since a 335 timing case is in the block and the cover is just a plate, I may well be wrong.

Gary would know better than I do....

If you buy a timing chain gasket set it will come with two little 'ears' of pan gasket to replace that part.

You glue them in with oil resistant silicone like GM's "The Right Stuff' or 'Ultra Gray' from Permatex

[Gary Lewis]

I would like to check the timing chain while I have the balancer off. From things I have read, if I remove the timing chain cover, I might have to pull the oil pan to get it back on. I'm pretty sure that will require pulling or lifting the engine, and I can't do either of those currently. Those are things I may have to wait on my mechanic for.

You can easily check the timing chain w/o removing the cover. Two ways:

• Pull the fuel pump and reach in with a hook and see how much slop there is. 1/2" is max.

• Bring #1 up on TDC by turning the engine clockwise with the 15/16" bolt on the crank balancer. And then remove the distributor cap. With the TDC mark lined up with the pointer gently turn the engine backwards (CCW) and stop when the distributor starts to turn. The timing marks show the amount of slop.

Having said that, if the engine hasn't been rebuilt then the chain has to be worn. Still, checking before you plow ahead is good.

[dirtymac]

You can easily check the timing chain w/o removing the cover. Two ways:

• Pull the fuel pump and reach in with a hook and see how much slop there is. 1/2" is max.

• Bring #1 up on TDC by turning the engine clockwise with the 15/16" bolt on the crank balancer. And then remove the distributor cap. With the TDC mark lined up with the pointer gently turn the engine backwards (CCW) and stop when the distributor starts to turn. The timing marks show the amount of slop.

Having said that, if the engine hasn't been rebuilt then the chain has to be worn. Still, checking before you plow ahead is good.

Thank you for that! I think I can make one of those options work!

[AmericanSavage]

I would like to check the timing chain while I have the balancer off. From things I have read, if I remove the timing chain cover, I might have to pull the oil pan to get it back on. I'm pretty sure that will require pulling or lifting the engine, and I can't do either of those currently. Those are things I may have to wait on my mechanic for.

Hi DirtyMac,

That goo you asked about is part of the timing chain cover. You do NOT need to remove the oil pan. See my thread where I did all this and had planned on replacing/upgrading the chain. I ended up buying a new cover from Summit because there is a bolt that easily strips out one of the holes for the water pump With a little finagling, got it on with light use of Ultra black (or gray, pending on if you are covering for oil or coolant)…no leaks—Milodon gaskets. Jim was correct about all that…but you do not have to remove the two bolts on the pan….keep it set if it is not leaking.

All in all I love the “Cleveland.”

On the sticky throttle, I would replace the entire cable from the pedal—those things corrode, and no amount of lube will loosen it up…then, maybe get a Holley (running for cover now as Gary might have his ire up!)

 

[Gary Lewis]

…then, maybe get a Holley (running for cover now as Gary might have his ire up!)

[dirtymac]

The smoke test needs every port either connected to something or blocked off. So you'll need to pull the air cleaner and fashion a way to block off the top of the carb, like a plastic lid to some container with a hole in the middle and it pushed down over the stud. And yes, things that aren't in use can be left disconnected but their ports on the engine need to be capped.

Then you get a cigar and start puffing smoke into a large vacuum hose, like the one to the brake booster. Soon, if there are leaks, you'll see smoke coming out.

As for the harmonic balancer, it is made up of a large center hub, and an outer ring that is supposed to be bonded to the hub via rubber. But over time the rubber lets go and the outer ring shifts. And since the timing marks are on it, your timing seems to change - but it really doesn't.

So use something like a piston stop and find TDC on #1. With a stop you roll it gently one way until it stops and mark the balancer where it meets the timing pointer. Roll it back the other way until it stops and mark the balancer. Half way between those marks should be your TDC mark on the balancer. If not it probably has shifted, although being off a degree or so isn't a problem. But if you are off 10 degrees then the balancer has slipped and needs to be replaced.

Initial timing of 10 to 12 degrees BTDC is common on these engines. Some will take 14 degrees but anything more and you are asking for pinging and/or hard starting.

I did a couple of smoke tests today using the brake booster hose. I left everything hooked up as it was when I got the truck. The top of the carb did leak a little smoke but after a few tries I got it to stop. Otherwise, I could find no smoke coming from anywhere else (including into the cab).

Last week I pulled the carb to work on the sticky throttle. I checked the flaps and there is no sign of damage to them or that they are getting stuck on anything. They did have some small spots of surface crud, which I cleaned off. I cleaned them and anything connected to the throttle linkage with some carb cleaned and worked them back and forth pretty good. That seemed to help a bit with the sticky throttle. It still sticks sometimes but it sticks just barely open and its not as noticable.

I still have some slight hesitation when accelerating from a stop. The carb bowl does seem to hold fuel for a few days between starts. I can't find any external fuel leaks on the carb.

I don't know the quality of the rebuild on this carb. I don't know how many miles it has on it or how it has been treated. I also don't have enough info to get a carb kit without tearing it down. I think that may be my next step. I also think I want to do this before I deal with the harmonic balancer.

I am probably going to get a rebuild kit from Mike's Carburetor Parts in case anyone has experience or comments on them.

[dirtymac]

Hi DirtyMac,

That goo you asked about is part of the timing chain cover. You do NOT need to remove the oil pan. See my thread where I did all this and had planned on replacing/upgrading the chain. I ended up buying a new cover from Summit because there is a bolt that easily strips out one of the holes for the water pump With a little finagling, got it on with light use of Ultra black (or gray, pending on if you are covering for oil or coolant)…no leaks—Milodon gaskets. Jim was correct about all that…but you do not have to remove the two bolts on the pan….keep it set if it is not leaking.

All in all I love the “Cleveland.”

On the sticky throttle, I would replace the entire cable from the pedal—those things corrode, and no amount of lube will loosen it up…then, maybe get a Holley (running for cover now as Gary might have his ire up!)

I plan to have a look at the timing chain using Gary's suggestions while I have the harmonic balancer off. Based on what you and others have said, I think I can probably replace the timing chain myself -- if it comes to that. The weird gasket ears concern me but I know they get used without trouble so I am probably just a bit paranoid.

The throttle cable and pedal seem to work ok. When I first got the trouble the throttle was very sticky and after some cable lube most of that was gone. I recently had the carb off to work on this. After some cleaning and work on it, it is much better. I don't think the cable is causing any issues but I appreciate the advice. I had wondered how easy it would be to replace the cable if it came to that.

[85lebaront2]

I did a couple of smoke tests today using the brake booster hose. I left everything hooked up as it was when I got the truck. The top of the carb did leak a little smoke but after a few tries I got it to stop. Otherwise, I could find no smoke coming from anywhere else (including into the cab).

Last week I pulled the carb to work on the sticky throttle. I checked the flaps and there is no sign of damage to them or that they are getting stuck on anything. They did have some small spots of surface crud, which I cleaned off. I cleaned them and anything connected to the throttle linkage with some carb cleaned and worked them back and forth pretty good. That seemed to help a bit with the sticky throttle. It still sticks sometimes but it sticks just barely open and its not as noticable.

I still have some slight hesitation when accelerating from a stop. The carb bowl does seem to hold fuel for a few days between starts. I can't find any external fuel leaks on the carb.

I don't know the quality of the rebuild on this carb. I don't know how many miles it has on it or how it has been treated. I also don't have enough info to get a carb kit without tearing it down. I think that may be my next step. I also think I want to do this before I deal with the harmonic balancer.

I am probably going to get a rebuild kit from Mike's Carburetor Parts in case anyone has experience or comments on them.

If it is the original carb, it will be an Autolite (maybe Motorcraft by 1982) 2100 or 2150. Kits used to be extremely plentiful for them and were pretty universal (Carter 902-857D, Standard 77-857D, Autolite or Ford CT499D were what I stocked along with one in a plastic bag I used in the shop that was the same quality, just only cost me $2.00 each) Stay away from Tomco, their gaskets are soft and their inlet needle and seat is a POS.

It is one of the simplest 2 barrel carbs ever built, two castings, a choke assembly and a cluster. I can almost build one blindfolded.

Biggest issue I can think of on a 41 year old carburetor is wear on the throttle shaft and main body casting. Depending on the return spring layout either the front side or back side of the shaft and bore will be worn, this leads to sticking when returning to idle. Other than putting bushings in as the remanufacturers do, there isn't a good fix.

The reason I don't recommend reman carbs, I know what I was selling to a core supply house 40-45 years ago, junk that was either stuff throw together or just flat worn out, I doubt the quality has improved since then.

[dirtymac]

If it is the original carb, it will be an Autolite (maybe Motorcraft by 1982) 2100 or 2150. Kits used to be extremely plentiful for them and were pretty universal (Carter 902-857D, Standard 77-857D, Autolite or Ford CT499D were what I stocked along with one in a plastic bag I used in the shop that was the same quality, just only cost me $2.00 each) Stay away from Tomco, their gaskets are soft and their inlet needle and seat is a POS.

It is one of the simplest 2 barrel carbs ever built, two castings, a choke assembly and a cluster. I can almost build one blindfolded.

Biggest issue I can think of on a 41 year old carburetor is wear on the throttle shaft and main body casting. Depending on the return spring layout either the front side or back side of the shaft and bore will be worn, this leads to sticking when returning to idle. Other than putting bushings in as the remanufacturers do, there isn't a good fix.

The reason I don't recommend reman carbs, I know what I was selling to a core supply house 40-45 years ago, junk that was either stuff throw together or just flat worn out, I doubt the quality has improved since then.

Unfortunately, this is not the original carb. This is a remanufactured 2150. Other than that, I don't know much about it. It could be even older than the truck. Your comment about wear on the throttle shaft are interesting considering the issues I am having.

[85lebaront2]

Unfortunately, this is not the original carb. This is a remanufactured 2150. Other than that, I don't know much about it. It could be even older than the truck. Your comment about wear on the throttle shaft are interesting considering the issues I am having.

That was why I mentioned it. If the rebuilder did not grind it off, the Ford PN was stamped on the side of the base next to the left front mounting bolt. There is also a cast in venturii size on that side of the float bowl.

I would expect the size to be maybe 1.21-1.23 as that was what the 390 two barrels were, the biggest factory I believe was 1.33 used on the 429 two barrel engine.