Gary Lewis

Well, the teething problems are certainly going to keep me from installing EFI any time soon. When I came out to the shop today I was greeted with this: The closest puddle is ATF, and here's what I found when I started inspecting. I'd put the paper towels on some time ago to try to trace where the leak was coming from, but apparently the leak during yesterday's trip was too much for that one. I spent the next many minutes cleaning the underside of the truck where it had blown back or dripped down. Then I spent the next hour or so tightening up clamps and fittings. And I believe the clamp in the upper right, closest to the oil filter, was the culprit. I hope. We will see since I replaced the paper towels with dry ones. Then I checked on the engine oil leak. I think the drain plug was seeping, so I snugged it up. However, there is one track to the left that might have been part of the problem. We shall see. Then I checked on the brake leak at the rear. Sure enough, it has still been leaking. But the paper towels told the tale - the problem is that fitting at the crossmember. So I TIGHTENED it. I've snugged it up twice before with no joy, but this time I went as tight as I dared. However, I doubt that will fix it. About then Amazon delivered the charger for this Surface Pro tablet, so I tried it and it works. But UPS is still taking the brackets for the bed rails on a tour of Skiatook, while I watched courtesy of their "Follow My Delivery" feature, so I didn't get to install them. Given that I didn't have much time left I loaded up the toolbox with most of the rest of the stuff that had been in it. And during that I realized it was time to replace the weatherstripping on the box since it was, literally, falling off. That took a lot of cleaning and scrubbing to get the remnants of the old stuff of, but I put some of the 1/2 x 1/4" closed-cell foam tape on and it seems to have sealed it up nicely. Tomorrow we are running errands, but I plan to install the bed rail brackets on Thursday and get it ready to go to the Big Iron Overland Rally on Friday, where I hope to see Scott. They have some seminars that I'm looking forward to: MANAGING TRAUMA OFF-ROAD RECOVERY GEAR OVERLAND NAVIGATION GAIA 101 OVERLAND RADIO COMMUNICATIONS

Let's put it in the post so's people can see w/o clicking it.

Yeah, I do need to do the EFI. But I want to use the truck this summer and then do the EFI this winter.

Take the two nuts off the back. They hold the ammeter on as well as make the connections to the circuit. However, I've ruined two gauges because the studs turned when I turned the nuts, and that broke an internal wire. So instead of using a nutdriver I now use a wrench and hold the end of the stud with pliers the first time I take one off.

Bruce - I've spent several hours in that man cave. Nice big leather recliners, wifi, TV, and lots of books and magazines. Yep, been there, done that, and probably will go back. And Paducah. And Houston. And.....

Yes, but you might be left on the side of the road. I was, several times, until I figured out that the hoses were leaking air in and killing the vacuum the pump was creating to move the fuel. So it is a good thing you found that. Now go look at the one from the tank to the hard line. And if you have dual tanks, look at the ones from the hard lines to the switching valve and then from it back to the hard line. They are all the same age.

Bill - Thanks for that. What I think you said is that it is likely this is a problem caused by a combination of the intake and the carb. The intake was designed for air and not air & fuel. And the carb would need to be modified to work with it, which I don't want to do. However, enrichening the idle and raising the float level may help. Is that a fair summary? If so, I think I'll try the idle and float level trick for Saturday's 200 mile trip up to the Big Iron Overland Rally in SE Kansas. If that helps enough I'll leave it alone and work on other things. If not, I'll probably put the Street Demon on and see if it helps. But I don't want to spend too much time working out the issues with a carb when I'm going with EFI.

EFI is planned for this fall/winter, so I don't think I want to spend a lot of time playing with this. Especially since I'm not convinced that it is just an issue with the carb. But if there's an easy fix with this carb, or if swapping on the Street Demon might do it, I might give that a try. So, thanks for the offer but I think I'll pass on the AVS. Watching the AFR as the throttle and load changes has me convinced that EFI is the way to go. Keeping the mix constant has got to make a huge difference.

I'm not trying to lean it out. I've enrichened the mix from where it was on the old engine and have it running nicely save for this off-idle issue. I'm willing to enrichen it more if that's what is needed, but I'm not sure that making it richer at cruise there will fix this.

Duh!

Yes, it certainly does! Interesting. When did the 460 go to that?

I can't mod this Eddy since it belongs to Brandon/Bruno2 and is only on loan to me. I wonder if the Street Demon would have this problem? Hmmmm As for throttle position vs RPM, I think it is throttle. I say that 'cause I lugged it down in 3rd today and got into the dreaded RPM range and then when I opened the throttle enough I saw the AFR come down and the engine perk up. Which brings me to a thought I had about being jetted too lean. As said, it seems jetted about right at cruise, although it could be a smidgen richer. But I don't think a smidgen is going to solve this off-idle problem.

Yes, the previous intake was a Performer. As for idle and cruise AFR, they are typically fine. The issue is a very lean mix just off idle. It has been idling at 650 RPM and ~13:1 AFR. But I noticed today that between idle and ~1300 the AFR goes up to 16 - 18:1 and the engine doesn't pull well at all with that mix. If you give it more throttle the AFR comes back down to ~14:1, but when you are at that low of an RPM you are usually taking it very easy on the throttle. So I'm trying to figure out how to fatten up the off-idle mix. And it isn't just a transition issue, the AFR stays lean when you are in that RPM range.

Jim - The pulley I used was off a much earlier engine, IIRC, before the AIR pump. And it took a lot of searching to find it. I'll check the L&L pulley tomorrow to see what the belt sizes are.

Jim - I'm no expert at any of this. But my reading seems to say that the design of the intake can affect AFR since a large plenum causes a slower flow of the air/fuel mix, which can cause the fuel to drop out of suspension. That would give a lean mix, which is what I'm seeing. And Scotty did tell me that this is a "large" plenum. As for the vacuum signal, both engines idled at 18" @ 650 RPM, so at first blush that would say the carb should be seeing the same vacuum signal. However, Scotty's cam is quite different than the Edelbrock cam that the old engine had, which he called "pooh". So the carb could be seeing something different than what the vacuum gauge is? As for changing the Edelbrock, I'll give the pump a larger stroke and see if that helps. Plus I'll open the idle screws a bit to make the idle richer. But I don't know what you mean by having "the needles higher". The inlet needles or the metering needles? Probably the inlet needles, which would enrichen things across the board. Right?

Wow! That's a lot of work! Made me tired just reading it. Changing the rear seal in the truck is a huge pain. I've not done it on a 460, but have a on a 351W and vowed to never do it again. So I'm in awe that you got it done. A non-EGR intake will be compatible with your engine. But, the distributor was tuned to give a lot more advance than one w/o EGR due to the inert gas which slows combustion and needs an early spark. That was probably done via the vacuum advance since it is when vacuum is high that they introduce the exhaust gas. But since you turned the adjustment all the way to the other end in the vacuum advance unit you may be well positioned to run w/o EGR.

Interesting! Glad you found it.

The SEM instructions for prep are much more involved than that. It'll be interesting to see how it works for you.

Dave - I'm having a hard time picturing that. Do you have a link? John - Janey was needing several fabrics for a quilt she's making, and Stillwater has both a good quilt shop and a JoAnn's. Plus, at Granny's Kitchen you can get one of the best chicken-fried steaks we've had.

We had a good outing today. Put ~175 miles on Big Blue and he performed well. At one point we were on the turnpike with a 75 MPH speed limit and he cruised right on the limit easily. However, there were a couple of learnings. First, the charger for this Microsoft Surface Pro tablet does not work on the inverter. Lots of other chargers do work on the inverter, but this one doesn't. So I've found a charger that plugs into a 12v power port and it should work fine. The other learning is that I may have discovered why the engine doesn't like to pull below ~1300 RPM. The AFR goes very lean as you get down close to 1000 RPM, like 16 - 18:1, and at one point I saw 20:1. I'd not watched the AFR as the R's dropped down, but for some reason I caught it today. And then I started watching it closely and found that it drops as I pull away from a stop, which explains why I have to give it some gas and slip the clutch as I pull away. So, what's the deal? Can it be the carb? Is it due to the design of the intake manifold/plenum, which is designed for air since it is for port-injection EFI? As a reminder, that same carb worked perfectly with the previous engine, and it pulled like a tractor from idle. The carb was out of service for a while but was kept in a baggy during that time. And I've gone through it since when I changed the jetting, so I think it is ok. Thoughts?

I agree - use the arrangement with the most wrap. As for the pulleys to use, I found a pulley from another engine, Windsor I think, that had two matched sheaves the right size. I might be able to come up with the part numbers on it if you want. As for the alternator, I ordered a pulley that was supposed to have two sheaves the same size, but it didn't as one was smaller than it was supposed to be. So I enlarged that sheave on the lathe. I've not run that combo yet 'cause it is for Dad's truck, but if I had to do it over again I'd go with one belt.

You are too kind towards that little raised ring Gary! Sounds like a great gift seed to plant Sitting in a parking lot catching up on here while Janey shops. Just had lunch at Granny’s Kitchen in Stillwater and took our tea. The cups JUST fit in this thing. Seed is planted.

Well, either your Ford book or my Ford book is wrong. This is from the1985 factory shop manual:

Makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation.

I was going to do 27 but it seemed to much so I dropped it to 25. My manual in the fuel pump chapter says 19-27 ft-lbs. What manual do you have?