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What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

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BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Any of the 3G conversion threads have links to the Rocketman's Classic Cougar Innovations ammeter conversion.

I admit to have spied couple of these 3G threads, but since it is not in my projects list (for the moment), I didn't noticed this link to Rocketman's site.

So, this famous "look as OEM" modern voltmeter exists! And not too expansive.

I'll send him a mail, just in case he still has on hands the Cory's one. We never know!

I imagine that it will require some modification to the cluster printed circuit, even for a 1G monitoring, am I right?
If so, is there a thread about it?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

You don’t need to modify the cluster, just the wires to it from the shunt. Basically you will have to wire it as shown in the 3G pages.

I’ll try to post that bit here in the morning, but you are going to have to do about 2/3 of the wiring to go with a 3G in order to put the voltmeter in, so maybe you should go whole hog?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

My recommendation for how to wire for the voltmeter is as below.

The ammeter, soon to be voltmeter, is already connected to the battery via Ckt 655, which is the R/O wire that connects at Splice 203 to the positive end of the shunt. The cut on Ckt 654, the Y/LG above S202, is to disconnect the negative side of the voltmeter from the shunt. The relay comes on with key-on power to provide a ground to the voltmeter - otherwise the voltmeter will be pulling ~.08A at all times.

But you don't actually have to move the alternator's output from S202 to the starter relay as shown if you keep the 1G. (The schematic is from the 3G page.) You will have roughly a .2V drop across the shut when charging the battery at 60A, but you have that today so it isn't an issue. (However, when doing the 3G swap you really DO need to make that wiring change when you put a 3G in as the shunt probably won't handle 130A.)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Thanks Gary!

I sent an email to Rocketman and we'll see if he still has the Cory's core in stock.
If not, I'll send him mine.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

In reply to this post by Rembrant

Cory, I just sent you an email.

Got an answer from Rocketman, he is asking for some information regarding your order.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Ready for inverter, wired!

From the solenoid:

Through the passenger grommet:

Under the carpet, ending behind the rear bench seat:

I bought this model, enough for my needs:

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

Nice!
Good job Jeff.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

I like it!

But id there a fuse? And did you come off of both sides of the relay where the blue arrows are?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

I’ll see if there is a fuse coming with the inverter (not received yet).
If not, I’ll fuse the positive wire.

And yes, the black and the red wires start from each side of the relay. Direct positive and direct ground.

I used #6 wires, to have the least resistance as possible, since there is around 12’-13’ between the power source and the inverter (crew cab…).

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gsmblue

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Might want to check your relay wiring. Isn’t that a permanent positive and switched positive you have wired there? The original black wire on that relay should go to your starter positive terminal.

Your black inverter wire should be to the negative battery post or grounded on the chassis.

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Ok, I’ll check that.
I tested (light 12V tester) the negative pole (truck not running) and it appeared to be permanently grounded.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

I don't think I've ever seen a relay wired like that.
The red wire is hot all the time off the battery, and the black wire will be hot when the relay is triggered...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

That’s logical, yep.
I didn’t think ahead when I tested, looking for a good ground.

Will verify what’s going on tomorrow.

Thanks for taking care of me!

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gsmblue

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Team work!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

We (as a community) are all here to see others succeed no matter how large or small the project.
Having an inverter will allow you to literally take the show on the road.

If you're still concerned about your alternator output and want to "keep it stock" with a 1G I posted a link to the factory available 70-100A 1G alternator from Rockauto earlier today. "What alternator is this?"

Looking forward to see it up and running!

(edit link to thread)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

grumpin

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

I thought about an inverter at one time, and thought I'd have a dedicated battery for it.

Wouldn't drain the truck battery if the truck wasn't running.

You'se guys are talking about some cool stuff!

I figured if I needed 1500 watts, I'd get a 3000 watt inverter.

Larry has a good point about a pure sine inverter.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

Jeff - The ground you are seeing is the starter motor. But it isn't where you want your ground to be as it isn't a good ground, and not ground at all when starting. However, just take that wire to the battery's ground.

Dane - Most inverters I've looked at are good for twice their rating a startup. The 3KW one I got from Jim will start 6KW worth of load, but won't carry more than 3KW for long. And it isn't a pure sine wave, but everything I've ever tried on it has worked, save for the power supply for the Microsoft tablet. All else, the compressor, a Keurig, and power supplies for this Dell laptop and my Sony camera, as well as Ridgid battery chargers have all worked.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

BigBrother-84

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Ok Gentlemen, let’s admit that it wasn't my brightest idea…
Anyway, ground connexion now fixed, directly on the battery negative pole.

Gary Lewis wrote

Jeff - The ground you are seeing is the starter motor. But it isn't where you want your ground to be as it isn't a good ground, and not ground at all when starting.

Gary, we architects can fortunately rely on engineers for these trivial mechanical and electrical questions.
But some if us probably have a bit of engineering genes, and are interested to understand the basics (no more, thanks).

That’s my case.
So, I sketched a simplistic diagram and now understand that I was seeing the Starter ground.
It’s a chance that the light tester has a good resistance, otherwise jumping the Relay could have start the engine.

More seriously, I am wondering why there is not uniquely the starter circuit linked to this Relay pole.
What other circuits have to run only when the Relay trigger is closed?

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Jeff, your diagram has the fusible links backwards.

The photo shows them on the battery positive lug of the relay (as they should be!)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: What maximum power inverter for 1G alternator

Administrator

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

Yes, the test light has a relatively high resistance and the very low resistance of the starter acts as a good ground for the test light. But it wouldn't be a good ground for the inverter as it has a much lower effective resistance. In fact, a big enough inverter might actually cause the starter to turn, although not enough to start the engine.

As for circuits that are powered off the rear post of the relay, I don't believe there should be any. The '85 EVTM doesn't show any and I can't think of anything that should be powered then. Perhaps one or more of the fuse links have accidentally been moved there at some point?

Can you determine the colors of the wires? Show us a close-up pic?

I might not get back to this very quickly as my grandtwins are visiting and I'm spending most of my time with them. But others can help. And I'll be back as soon as I can.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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