T19 Shift Lever/Rail Woes

Upon pulling out the shifters from my T-19's to swap them, I took a look down in the shift towers and didn't like what I saw.

This first T19 is supposedly a low mile 1987 variant from a Florida brush truck. I actually saw the truck it came from and verified the low mileage. I was told the T19 was swapped for a ZF5, which was the case. One thing to note, I was given a strange shift lever when I bought the transmission (I'm assuming this was due to the well-known issue of the upper half of the shifter coming apart). After research, I determined it was from a 1970's International pickup. They also had T19's, but I'm thinking it may not been a great fit for the Ford T19 even though it seemed to work since they were using it. I sold the shift lever prior to finding a T19 version, so no way to measure to verify. I'm thinking that may have caused the wear to the shift forks shown in the photo. It does NOT seem to affect shifting, although the shift lever does have about 2.5-3" of side to side swing in all gears, which I'd like to attribute to the shift levers and not the transmission as neither transmission feels "sloppy". Unfortunately that's too hard to tell with them out of a truck.



This second photo is my spare T19 with unknown history (It is a 1983-1986 T19 judging by the one bolt hole for the T-case shift lever) although the extension housing has been TIG welded at some point due to a broken ear. I notice it does not have the little pin on the right side like the first T19. I assume that's the detent for reverse, but not 100% sure. I'm mainly just curious if somebody has removed it, or if this is a difference between a 1983-1986 T19 and a 1987 T19. This spare T19 goes straight into reverse unlike the 1987 T19 which requires the shifter go left then right and into reverse. I was intially thinking of just swapping shift rail towers, but since they both have issues, I'm trying to determine which one is the best or whether the best one still needs to be fixed.



Finally, my spare T19 came with a shift lever, which is the double bend style that came on the Bullnose trucks. The other lever I have is straight and correct for a 1987. I would like to use this curved one, but somebody has destroyed the splines, and then threaded the end and stripped it too. I would REALLY like to fix this by converting the lever to accept a 3/8-24 shift knob, as that's what my transfer case lever is setup for and I would like for them to match. Any tips on this, such as welding techniques and how to keep it from coming apart at the top? Should I use a special type of bolt at the top (obviously something weldable)? The factory 1980-1982 levers neck down significantly in this area, so if they're not prone to breaking, it's likely not that big of a deal, but I'd still like to do it right. I'm not against sourcing a 1980-1981 lever and grafting them, but shift levers are upwards of $100 these days and that's alot of money to just cut one up. Thoughts?

Shaun - I don't know about the transmissions, but have questions about the shift lever.  What thread is currently on it, albeit stripped?  It looks bigger than 3/8", but it is really hard to tell.  If it is bigger then why not take it down to 3/8" and then thread it?

Then, obviously, the question would be how to take it down to 3/8"?  I'm sure I'm missing something easy and obvious, but I'm not seeing it.  What I'm wondering is about using a slightly larger hole saw, maybe a 1/2", to go down over it.  If a 1/2" is designed to leave a 1/2" hole then might it give a 3/8" plug with 1/8" on each side?

Unfortunately, the end of the shifter is hollow, so bringing it down to 3/8ths is either not possible, or the threads would end up significantly weak. It seems my only option is to either graft on part of an 80-82 shift lever, or weld a bolt to the end. I do wonder how far down the hollow section goes. That may hinder any hope of welding anything to the end if it goes down more than an inch or two.

How about threading the hollow end and running a bolt in it with red Loctite on it.  Then take the OD down to 3/8" and thread it.

'87 T-19 shifters had a spline and the plastic knob was pressed on.

The stump from the shift tower didn't fit all the way up the square section at the bottom.
As I recall there is a red plastic bush with a couple of bumps that fit into dimples, retaining it.
Maybe the plastic was moulded in place like a GM 7niversal is fixed in the yoke?

I got mine apart with a punch and torch so I could have the 'finger' welded back on and used some tenacious rubber sealant to bond it back into the upper stick.

Thanks for the ideas guys. I'll measure out the hollow section and see if it can be tapped to 3/8-24. Didn't really think about tapping the inside for some all-thread.

If you can figure out what the thread, if you can call it that, is on there then we'll have something to go on.

As for the inside, just tap it for whatever the bore currently is - but get a good tight tap.  And get it as deep as you can so there's not a weak spot.  If you don't have a finish tap you may want to buy one or make one out of your tap by grinding the taper off.

The thread is pretty mangled, so no good way to tell what it was sadly.

However, I realized that these shift levers are hollower than I initially thought. There's more than enough room to tap the inside of the lever for some all-thread. I measured the hole using drill bits since I don't have a good way to measure that small of a diameter, but a 19/64 drill bit fits in there without much play. This isn't obviously a good indicator, so in decimal form, it's .296875. That's smaller than 3/8 at .375. So essentially, I would need to drill it to .3320 to tap it for 3/8-24. The closest bit size for that would likely be Q. But I would need to make sure that I have enough wall thickness to support that oversize, and that's where it gets a little dicey. Since the end was threaded, the walls are reduced, and may not be straight nor supportive. However, if I cut the lever back to what's left of the original splines, that will give me a much thicker wall, and won't affect the knob's distance to the driver much if at all.

I don't have any letter drill bits, nor do I have a 3/8-24 tap, so I will need to acquire both at some point prior to attempting this. But from what I can see, it's looking like a go.

3/8-24 is real oddball for allthread.
Probably better off finding a coarse/fine stud, in which case 5/16 drill is about a 72% thread (for 3/8-16)💡

How about just using a 3/8-24 bolt and cutting the head off?  Or, better yet, a 3/8-24 set screw.  These from Amazon are pricey, but surely they can be found elsewhere for less in smaller quantities.

McMaster-Carr has these. 3/8-16 on one side, 3/8-24 on the other. If it works for you I think I'm gonna do this on mine so I don't lose any length when I convert to a threaded knob.

My T19 is supposedly from a 1985 F250, double-bend shifter with splined knob. The slot for the shifter does not have that pin your 1987 has, and I haven't seen it in the small parts kit I bought. I also have a quite a bit of shifter slop with a fully rebuilt lower and untouched upper, but I couldn't tell you the length. I would also consider the health of the shift forks in determining which upper assembly to use, One of my forks has uneven wear and I backed out of replacing it once I learned the procedure was potentially out of my depth, or my arsenal of tools, I don't remember. It seems weird that the 1987 requires doubling back to shift into reverse, that would annoy the crap out of me.

My transmission is still out of my truck if you want me to take some comparison photos.

Because you can get a UNC-UNF stud from any auto parts store through Dorman for $2.49?
Because 5/16 is the tap drill size for 3/8-16 instead of some odd letter size?
Because 99% of the people in this ONE country will have a UNC 3/8-16 tap, but not some oddball size 3/8-24?  

Would you like more?

You win.  

JimJam300 wrote

McMaster-Carr has these. 3/8-16 on one side, 3/8-24 on the other. If it works for you I think I'm gonna do this on mine so I don't lose any length when I convert to a threaded knob.

My T19 is supposedly from a 1985 F250, double-bend shifter with splined knob. The slot for the shifter does not have that pin your 1987 has, and I haven't seen it in the small parts kit I bought. I also have a quite a bit of shifter slop with a fully rebuilt lower and untouched upper, but I couldn't tell you the length. I would also consider the health of the shift forks in determining which upper assembly to use, One of my forks has uneven wear and I backed out of replacing it once I learned the procedure was potentially out of my depth, or my arsenal of tools, I don't remember. It seems weird that the 1987 requires doubling back to shift into reverse, that would annoy the crap out of me.

My transmission is still out of my truck if you want me to take some comparison photos.

I appreciate the insight and I'm glad I'm not the only one contemplating this. It's hard to tell, but it didn't look like there was even a spot for the detent pin in my spare T19, which is why I assumed it never came with it. 1987 was a weird one-year wonder for shift levers so it doesn't surprise me.

Luckily for me, my daily driver Ranger has the reverse lockout feature, so it's something I'm used to so won't be bad in my F350 if I'm running the 1987 T19.

Gary Lewis wrote

How about just using a 3/8-24 bolt and cutting the head off?  Or, better yet, a 3/8-24 set screw.

I would love to have something that is 3/8-24 on both sides, with a small shoulder in the center so that I could weld the center of the "stud" to the shift lever for added strength. But some form of gorilla snot will lock the stud in too, so no real need to weld.

 I've owned my '87 since '88 and never noticed a reverse lockout in the T-19?

That gearbox snapped the input winter of 2011.
The Zf overdrive really makes a difference with 4.10' s on the highway.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/dorman-autograde/performance/exhaust/exhaust-manifold-header-bolts---studs/1ae38bae6636/dorman-autograde-3-8-16-3-8-24-inch-thread-double-end-stud/dag0/675070


https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/dorman-autograde/dorman-autograde-3-8-16-3-8-24-inch-thread-double-end-stud/dag0/675523

There's more..

ArdWrknTrk wrote

 I've owned my '87 since '88 and never noticed a reverse lockout in the T-19?

That gearbox snapped the input winter of 2011.
The Zf overdrive really makes a difference with 4.10' s on the highway.

Interesting. I definitely can't just throw this trans into reverse. I have to shake it and then put it into reverse, just like my Ranger. Does the ZF have a lockout?

That's exactly why I jumped on the spare T19 when it was cheap and down the street. May not be able to find one locally when I need it. I just wish it came with a bellhousing because we all know what happens to those, and often.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/dorman-autograde/performance/exhaust/exhaust-manifold-header-bolts---studs/1ae38bae6636/dorman-autograde-3-8-16-3-8-24-inch-thread-double-end-stud/dag0/675070


https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/dorman-autograde/dorman-autograde-3-8-16-3-8-24-inch-thread-double-end-stud/dag0/675523

There's more..

You beat me to the searching. Thanks!

. I hope it helps.
I checked yesterday, before I opened my mouth and ended up wrong.
I figured one short and another long would get you on the right track.

I never thought about having to wiggle my T-19 into reverse.
If I did it had become so inate I literally forgot about it.

The Zf-5 pulls straight back into reverse.
Thankfully mine has not worn so bad that it wants to pop out (as I hear so many do)

If I intended to drive this truck more often or for farther distances cross country, I would have gone ZF5 and have even had multiple chances to pick one up over the last few years. I really enjoy driving my somewhat fuel-efficient Rangers, and my lifted Ranger can handle almost everything I throw at it including loading up the bed with half of a cut-up F250 so there's really no need to bother with a ZF5 when I can just use that truck for most of my truck needs.