Rembrant's new non-Bullnose project

Gary Lewis wrote

And not only do you not have to stop and top off the system when the engine starts, you know that there's no huge leak in the system that would prevent you from breaking the cam in.  

No cam break-in issues here Gary...this is a 1996 302 with roller cam. Just start-up and go!

Soooo nice job!

Yep, I forgot that.  

Hi guys,

I just started up my rebuilt 302 for the first time (yesterday actually) but did some further work on it this evening.

It started up fairly easily once the fuel got going but it was idling high due to the choke, which was holding the throttle open a little bit.

I disabled the electric choke so I could start it and let it warm up and set the low idle.

I started it again, but it wasn't easy starting and backfired quite a bit.
Once I got it running so it would almost idle, I hopped out and adjusted the idle screw in half a turn.
It was idling and running smooth enough, but I then noticed the headers starting to glow red so I shut it down.

They didn't get fully red or anything, they just started to at the sharp elbows next to the exhaust ports.

I've been doing a bit of Googling and it seems like running lean and/or timing being way off (retarded) are possible issues?.
I thought I'd come here and ask the experts to see what advice you have before I damage anything.

What should I do next?

I do have a timing light but I don't want to let it run if it's going to turn the headers red.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks all.

Glad you got it running.  Bummer on the headers, but you'll get that sorted.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I have also heard that lean makes things hot.  So I'd be looking for a vacuum leak.  You might be able to run it long enough to check for a leak w/o heating up the headers, but the smoke test would be a better way to look for one.

But where do you have the timing set?

Good to hear you got it running even if it is not 100% yet.

Me I would bump the timing up by ear and / or vacuum gauge as a start.
You have to run it to get a light on it and why I said just bump it up.

As for the lean this was at idle what was the RPM at?
The only time I have seen headers glow is on cam break in where the RPM is 2000 to 2500 and cant shut it down.
Do you have a AFR gauge? If not how will you know if it is running lean?
Dave ----

It was the timing!

The Googles were right! Timing was way too retarded so too much fuel was ended up in the exhaust where it was getting burned! I still didn't put the timing light on it, but I cranked it ahead and it started right up at the touch of the key and idled fine. No backfiring and no overheating headers. I let it idle until it warmed up and the thermostat opened. My IR temp gun is not great and it wouldn't read the shiny surface of the Champion radiator, but I knew the radiator was at least 195F and my electric fan wasn't coming on so I shut it down. Did a little digging and I have a minor wiring issue I need to correct. The Painless wiring harness comes with wiring for a fan relay, so I used that as the IGN trigger wire for my Derale fan controller. I didn't realize until I dug into the instructions that the trigger wire is supposed to be connected to a temp switch. So I basically just need to tie two wires together in the cab and that will cure that issue. Tomorrow's problems!

@Gary - I did throw the meter probes on the battery while it was idling so nicely and I'm seeing 14.7 volts, so I can only assume my old 3G alternator is wired up correctly! The battery rests on it's own at around 12.4 volts.

So it's starting and idling good now, and the oil pressure and coolant seem to be OK (Thermostat opened at 195F). 3G Alternator is working, and my power steering is working so far (not leaking). We'll see how it is on the road. I now have 12 quarts of Mercon V added to the 4R70W trans, and it isn't leaking.

So next step is to get the radiator fan controller working and dialed in to the correct temp setting (I'm going to start with it around 200F, I think). Then I can let it run long enough to get the base timing and idle set. Then I need to test the transmission controller.

Finally, fill with brake fluid and see how many leaks I have there...lol.

Test drive this weekend perhaps!

Thanks for listening all while I work through all the layers to getting this thing on the road;).

Awesome! This truck is going to be cool!

Yippee!!!  

Glad you got the timing corrected, and things are coming together.  I'll be you are anxious for the weekend!  

If you did not have a few little issues you would have a big one
Cant wait for the test drive report.
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

If you did not have a few little issues you would have a big one

Ain't that the truth eh?

Well I played around with it a little more this evening and it was really worrying me that the radiator fan was not coming on, but after some trial and error I got it sorted out. My temp gun will not read the smooth/shiny surface of the Champion radiator for some reason, and I guess I thought it was hotter than it actually was. My 195F thermostat was opening and the rad was getting hot, but apparently not hot enough to trigger the fan. It is supposedly pre-set to 180F, so I after letting it sit a little bit the heat soaked into the sensor and the fan turned on. I then adjusted the temp down to 176F and it spun up faster. It also ran for a 20 second cool down once it was powered off also, so it seems to be working fine.

I'm not great at judging temperature by touch, but the surface of the rad at 176F certainly feels bloody hot lol.

The temp sensor is also mounted with 3M double sided tape/adhesive of some kind, so it is going to take a little time to get up to temp compared to a sensor actually immersed in the coolant. I love how smooth and quiet it makes the fan, but I need some time with it to see how it will work out.

I checked the timing and it's at 5* BTDC and I can't advance it any further, so the distributor is definitely off by a tooth or so. Is there a way to adjust it by only one tooth other than just being careful? LOL. I don't want to screw it up, but I'll probably run it between 12-15 degrees (stock is 8*?). Idle was smooth at 800 RPM, but I'll get the timing adjusted and I'll get that all dialed in better.

Shifted the 4R70W trans through the gears and it seems OK and there are no errors coming up on the Quick4 controller display, so my wiring (and the transmission) is looking OK so far.

Next up...

Move distributor and adjust timing and get that and the idle sorted.
Then set up the Quick4 controller and set TPS, etc.
Then install gauges so I can see what the heck is going on...lol.

Excellent 👌

Cory, you are really making progress, and as Jim says "Progress is good!"  

On the dizzy, if it is hitting something and can't turn farther then I think you have to pull it and move it a tooth.

Good to hear you are getting it sorted out.

No easy way to go 1 tooth sorry to say.
Thing is to go 1 tooth the oil drive dose not line up so you go and go a little more snd is now off 2
May have to move it 1 tooth and then tune the motor by hand to get the drive to line up.
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

Good to hear you are getting it sorted out.

No easy way to go 1 tooth sorry to say.
Thing is to go 1 tooth the oil drive dose not line up so you go and go a little more snd is now off 2
May have to move it 1 tooth and then tune the motor by hand to get the drive to line up.
Dave ----

Man you ain't kiddin', what a pain in the butt. I tried adjusting it a half a dozen times and ended up not being able to start it at all lol. I finally just cranked it around to TDC mark on the balancer, and stabbed the distributor so that the rotor was just ahead of #1, and boom it started right up. I had a 50/50 chance of getting it right, and it was right. I'll screw around with it tomorrow but I think the only way to move it by one tooth is to use my oil pump primer rod to also move the oil pump driver rod...because the distributor will not move without it.

kramttocs wrote

Excellent 👌

Thanks Scott. It was on your advice that I went with the Derale controller for the radiator fan. The Jury is still out but it seems OK so far. I work with variable speed controllers fairly often with my work, so this thing piqued my interest. I like the idea of it ramping up and down rather than kicking on and off at full speed. I'm not sure how accurate the temp reading will be though...I'm going to need some time with that. Seems like it has to be set by trial and error...which annoys me...I'd prefer a fixed number or setting to dial it in, but anyway...we will see.

FuzzFace2 wrote

Good to hear you are getting it sorted out.

No easy way to go 1 tooth sorry to say.
Thing is to go 1 tooth the oil drive dose not line up so you go and go a little more snd is now off 2
May have to move it 1 tooth and then tune the motor by hand to get the drive to line up.
Dave ----

I got it! Seems my stab in the dark last night worked. I ended up with 16* BTDC, and it started right up. I adjusted it a little bit tonight and left it at 12* BTDC. The engine and cam is 1996, and when I search it shows that stock base timing is 10*BTDC. It starts and idles perfectly now, and it's nice and crisp when I rev throttle. I'm going to leave it at 12 degrees for now until I can get the vacuum and everything dialed in with the carb. It's running really nicely now and from here I can dial it in...I'll worry about the fine tuning later on. Right now I'll move on to some other more pressing things.

PS: I'm really liking this Summit carb so far (500 CFM). It starts and idles almost immediately without the choke. The 600 CFM 4160 Holley on my other 302 would never do that.

I haven't updated this in a while, but the old truck is more or less on the road now! I have a few more things to tweak and tune this weekend, and I could hop in it and drive across the country (I could, but I won't lol).



Last night I finally got the new fuel sender installed and set up. I'm still running a stock style tank (in the cab behind the seat). I bought a new sender with the more modern 33-240 ohm range. Problem was...the new sender was a "more standard" 5 hole flange, and the original was a 6 hole flange. I assume by "more standard" they mean Chevrolet lol. Anyway, I stressed over it a bit until I discovered that Autometer made a nice little billet adapter ring!






I probably didn't need to, but I ran a dedicated ground to the tank sender. Actually...I have been running dedicated grounds to EVERYTHING on this truck...but whatever. Anyway, the fuel gauge works great now! The new sender was adjustable...set the pivot in the middle of the tank, and then cut the float arm at 1.4 times half the tank depth, and voila!

I'm going to pull the carb tomorrow and sort out an issue with the TPS/Choke/Throttle (can't get idle below about 850...it is hanging up on something on the RH side of the carb still...ugh). I'm then going to calibrate my speedometer, and that's it. On to washing and waxing and lubing the 20 or so grease fittings!

TGIF folks.

Oh...and Gary or whoever else might be reading. The power steering cooler...is it on the return line or the pressure line? I think I'm going to add a frame mounted cooler, but curious where to install and on what line.