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Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

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Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

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So, the Load Range E's on Big Blue might be adequate?

Seriously though, does the stiffness of the sidewall change the amount of air you need in the tire? In other words, can you air down more or less with a LR C than a LR E?

As for serious 'wheeling, I really doubt that's going to happen. So the step bars will do for sliders.

And if they get bent then I can replace them as they bolt on - with big bolts.

For your new tires & wheels, since you might have two sets then it does make sense to go about as big as you can handle. You won't change your overall gearing by enough to notice when in low gears, and you won't be running on the highway much with the big tires, so the loss of torque won't be noticed.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

This post was updated on .

Generally you can (and need to) air a stiffer tire down farther than a softer tire. You're trying to get the tire to comply better with the rocks (so it can grip any edges better) as well as soften the ride so it doesn't beat you up. Stiff sidewalls do not help with this, but they're still OK when aired down enough.

Vehicle weight makes a difference obviously too. Suzuki Samurais can run about 0 psi, just the sidewalls will hold them up! Big Blue will need more air than that obviously. You want to go at lest until you start seeing a sidewall bulge. That'll probably be around 20 psi or so. And a little lower will help more with the ride and handling off-road, but be worse when you get back to the highway, and get closer to losing a bead.

For a while I had 235/85-16E tires on my CJ5. I ran those at 15 psi. That worked OK, but it was a lot nicer when I put 33/12.50x15Cs on it! And on my one Colorado 'wheeling trip in my '85 F-250 I left the 235/85-16Es at 40 rear / 50 front. Traction-wise I was OK, but the ride was brutal (I had no way to air them back up, and was pretty green at the time).

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

Administrator

I thought that the sidewall would make a big difference in how much you can/should air down. But obviously there's the bead issue with going down too far. And that's one area that Vernon didn't throw big bucks at - the wheels. Given what he did elsewhere I'm surprised that they aren't bead locks. Instead they are plain steel wheels. (I'm not griping, just observing.)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

Very few beadlock wheels are DOT-approved. I'm not sure what "DOT-approved" really means. As I understand you don't need DOT-approved wheels to run on the street. But it is a potential factor that might lead some to not use them unless they were really desired.

And I've heard that it's extremely difficult to balance beadlocks well. Of course I've also heard that it's no problem at all to balance beadlocks well, so take that for what little it's worth. But it's another potential reason to not use beadlocks "just because".

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

Administrator

Wasn't aware of any of that. Might be why Vernon didn't go with beadlocks. Makes sense.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

This post was updated on .

I finally started a YouTube channel so now I can post the videos we took on this trip three years ago. I'm editing the videos in back where they fit in this thread, but I'll stick all of them from this trip here at the end as well.

This first one is just a very short clip of part of "The Steps" on Black Bear Road.

The next one is Poughkeepsie Gulch on the day when we actually drove up The Wall. There's a short clip of an optional line a little below The Wall. This is another commercial for a front locker as I can't make it over a rock at about 0:20 with the front locker disengaged and then make it pretty easily after engaging the locker. (By the way, this was on a pretty steep climb as well).

The rest of the video is many of my attempts (and eventual success) on The Wall.

Finally is a short clip on Spring Creek Trail on Obstacle 2, another place I don't know if I would have made with an open front diff. And here you can tell that I tore the other motor mount and opened up the exhaust again!

Thanks for watching!

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

Administrator

Finally have a chance to look at the latest videos:

Black Bear Steps: Thanks for including the Black Bear Pass sign. As you know, that's as far as we got with Big Blue. Still would like to make it all the way.

Poughkeepsie Gulch: Where you engaged the locker is about where Mike, in his 4Runner, had to engage his locker, but there seem to be fewer rocks now. And, I think you may have had the same driver's ed teacher that I had since you seem to signal for turns even on the trail. But at The Wall things got dicey. I think I echoed Lesley's "eek!" But, you made it. (Sure glad we didn't try that. )

Spring Creek Trail: Man, you sure seem to find hard trails. But you get through things well. So, what seems to be the problem with the mount tearing?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

I tore the driver's side mount first. That's the mount that's in tension, so it will tear a lot easier. I built a "bomb proof" mount to replace it where the rubber is in compression no matter which way the force is on the mount, but I kept the stock mount on the passenger's side. Then I tor the passenger side mount, so I replaced it with a bomb-proof mount as well. I shoud be good now!

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

Administrator

Any idea why or how you were pulling them apart?

I realize that with the crawl ratio you had a lot of torque at the wheels, but you didn't have any more at the engine. However, now that I think about it the "engine" mounts are really mounts for the whole engine/transmission/t-case module, so it isn't the engine's torque but the torque that the module puts out, and you doubled or trebled it.

Hadn't really thought of it that way, but now it makes sense.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

This post was updated on .

Exactly, it's not the motor torque that needs a reaction, it's the driveshaft torque. And while I'm not getting 16.12 (edit, actually 17.2 if I could enter the right numbers into a calculator) times the full torque of a 302 (because I'm never giving it the full torque of a 302 when it's in low-low), it does take a lot of torque to "idle" up some of these rocks. Not having to do it at a higher speed reduces the power (proportional to speed) and energy (proportional to the speed squared) so it is a lot easier on equipment with lower gears. But it's still the same torque needed, so it's not like it's nothing.

And 40-some years of use and soaking in oil I'm sure didn't do the rubber any favors either! After thinking about it when the first one went I realized that tearing that old mount was a given, and I shouldn't expect much better from a new one so I built the stronger one. But I did think the passenger's side would hold up so I put it back on. It only lasted another trip or two, even being stressed mainly in compression. But it is in tension in reverse, and it was old and oil-soaked too. A new stock mount might have been fine, but I decided to build an overkill mount for that side too.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

Administrator

How about sharing., somewhere, how you made the mounts?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's Ouray Colorado Trip, 2018

I've have shared in in my various Bronco threads, but I guess that was before I was posting much about my Bronco here. I just copied the post I had on it on another board into my Bronco thread here.