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Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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Good point about the pics and vids. Glad others took them this time.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Kind of ironically, Lesley likes to tell people that when we were first married we did a lot of hiking. Then the first time we went 'wheeling in Colorado she said "wait, you can just DRIVE me to the top of the mountain and I don't have to WALK?!?!? Let's do THAT instead!" And now that I am trying to drive her up she keeps getting out to walk!

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Our next trail was Gitty Up, with a 4 rating (scale of 1 - 7). 4s here are a ... good challenge for me! Probably not anything I'd try on my own, but a fun challenge (and probably no damage) with a little help from my friends.

There was one line that we all pretty much ended up on (Dale tried harder lines first). What looked like the easiest way up caught most of us by the rear differential, so then the challenge was dealing with the big ledge. It would keep your diff clear, but offered an opportunity to crunch your left side if you slid off it, or your right side if you rolled off it! Seriously, this wasn't a trail for beginners, but it wasn't just for the Big Dogs either.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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Yikes! I see what you mean - easy to crunch one side or the other. In fact, I don't think BB would fit through there.

Ed made it look easy. But you scared me - and then you showed the reverse angle!

I think your front diff touched in that one. And that left front sure went high!

But y'all made it, and I'm sure I couldn't. Well done!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Yeah, that was an E-ride! (a nod to my license plate

)

I don't think you can hear me in the video, but as I drove past the guys at the top I said "I bet that looked better than it felt!" No one was sure they had the video, because both Lesley and the other cameraman had flinched pretty bad when they saw it happening. But they did hold the cameras steady!

We did like seeing Ed standing there with his arms crossed, suddenly starting toward the Bronco! I'm not sure if he thought he could help hold it down, or wanted to be there are soon as possible to render first aid or what! (Likely it was just a knee-jerk reaction without much thought).

If Big Blue was to try that hill I think he'd have to take a line like Ed, far enough to the left to stay up on the ledge. That was pretty much the line I was on, but Ed was going more straight up the hill and I was crossing the hill and turning up. I don't know if Big Blue could do that line or not. He might high-center. But that would probably be his best option (not saying you should)

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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No, I shouldn't. With his 33" tires and 10.25" diff BB doesn't have as much clearance as your Bronco.

Yes, Ed was trying to be helpful. Like he was when he tried to push the Jeep up over the ledge. He sure seems to be "in" on 'wheeling.

And I agree, it is amazing that the videos caught all of that - especially Lesley's! I flinched and I was just watching.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

I don't think I have much video of it, but these guys do a lot of pushing vehicles by hand. Or at least a lot more than I expect or see in other videos. But I guess that makes sense. At 2215 lbs, one or two people pushing a CJ2a can make a lot more difference than those same people pushing a 3600 lb Bronco or a 4200 lb Jeep Wrangler (stock weights, all would weigh more with modifications)

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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Yes, I guess with light weight vehicles like that then pushing would work. I guess I think of vehicles as being a lot heavier than they really are.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

The next trail we ran was called Renegade. This was one we ran in 2020 as well. That time I got my front tires up the waterfall but didn't want to try to bump it hard enough to get the rear up. The lack of clearance under my radius arms was a factor that time. Now with a lot less chance of hitting steel on rock I could hit it a little harder and was able to get up pretty easily!

It is fun seeing how differently the different Jeeps do on this. Some make look easy, others make it look exciting!

Another thing that's telling in the video is how little of my windshield shows as I'm climbing it. If the camera that's about 5'3" off the ground can't see me guess how much of the trail I can see!

After the waterfall there was a hill to climb. Last time we all took the line up the left side, which is pretty steep and loose, but it's pretty smooth. However this year it was pretty rutted out, so the smaller tired rigs (which was most of us) were going to have a hard time dragging our diffs. So most of us took the line up the right side. This was rougher and a little off-camber. But it was still easier than plowing with your diffs.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

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You are right, some made the waterfall look exciting! And Ed made it look easy. But you did very well.

As for the hill, I can tell that is STEEP! Interesting comparison of the two different views of the first guy up. On the second one you understand something about what all the laughing was over.

Did Ed build his buggy? It sure seems to just putt putt up things w/o a lot of fuss. Much quieter than the side-by-side.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Wade (actually the second guy up, there's only about 10 seconds of video on the first guy, Jeff) doesn't have power steering. Where his front tires were pointed didn't matter much when his back tires were hitting the ledge. But as soon as the back end came up his steering worked again, and he just couldn't correct fast enough. That wasn't the only time that sort of thing happened to him either!

The buggy is Ed's second vehicle. His first was also a Toyota pickup, but I think it still looked like a pickup. He said he bought this to be a parts vehicle for his first truck, but Janice told him they should 'wheel it instead. Since it was bought as a parts truck and now it seems really solid I'm pretty sure he did a lot to it. But I don't know what he did and what was there when he bought it. He can't have had it for very long since it's his second rig and he's only been doing this for 2 1/2 years.

And on the putt-putting, early in the weekend Ed said about one obstacle that if he couldn't crawl it he couldn't make it. He never seemed willing to "bump it" on anything. I don't know why that was. It could be that he didn't want to risk damage to the truck. It is running really big tires and really low gears with really small axles. That's a great recipe for crawling (lots of clearance under the axles) but it's also a recipe for breakage. Or it could be that he doesn't want to risk putting himself and Janice on their lid. He takes harder lines, but he takes them carefully. He ain't a teenager with an excess of testosterone! Or it could be that he just likes the craftsmanship of it. Anyone can bull their way through stuff. It takes more talent to work your way through with finesse. All of those "could be's" are good reasons not to hit things hard, and there may well be more. But whatever the reason(s), he does sure get the job done with a minimum of fuss!

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Administrator

I think I agree with Ed. I wouldn't want to be hitting things hard, but part of that is because I drive my truck on the street and don't want to hurt that part of it. I can see that bumping things could easily change the alignment, damage ball joints, etc.

But in Ed's case he's driving a buggy which isn't going to be driven on the street. On the other hand, I don't like tearing things up, and especially things I've put together, so maybe that's his reasoning? Still, I like the "finesse" bit. That's what he's doing.

As for lacking power steering, I'd think that would be important on a trail rig. But maybe his front end is a bit lighter than that of Big Blue?

Anyway, that would explain why he went off at an angle in a hurry.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Remember that these Jeeps were built in the '40s and '50s. Power steering wasn't a thing then. But with a little flathead four banger and about 5 turns lock-to-lock they made it work. Still, it's tough to turn the wheel if the vehicle isn't rolling. And that 5 turns that gives good leverage makes it had to spin it fast when you need to.

(several of these Jeeps have had power steering added, but Wade's yellow Jeep isn't one of them)

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

The next video is hardly worth posting, but I'm doing it anyway. I think this trail was called T-Bone, but I think T-Bone was rated "5" and I don't think this trail deserved more than a "3". So something in there is wrong. Anyway, there was only one obstacle that was marginally worth video.

Back to the discussion of Ed's technique, he was the only one to have much trouble here. Most of us made it up the first try, but he needed several. But he was crawling it and most of us bumped it. They weren't hard bumps, but it made a difference.

Jeff is the one other one who crawled it, but he had the advantage of a much shorter wheelbase (not always an advantage, but it sure was here). Even as short as a '43 Willys MB is, he still got his front end in the trees while keeping his back tires far enough to the left to crawl up the easier slope there (Ed couldn't get his back tires that far to the left, so he was trying to crawl up the undercut ledge.)

By the way, talking about driver technique, Jeff tries to crawl everything he can, but he's not afraid to bump it or even to "send it" when necessary. His signature line on the CJ2a bulletin board is "we do what we can and try what we can't". He's often entertaining!

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nothing Special

Right, it is the leverage needed w/o power steering, which corresponds to low gearing, that makes it hard to correct in a hurry.

I assume when they add P/S they change out the steering box for one with power and a higher ratio. But I've heard that there are P/S slaves that can be added to the drag link to add P/S w/o changing out the box.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nothing Special

I think Ed would have gone right over it if he'd hit it a teeny bit harder. And with the tires he has they'd have taken up the impact. I think Jeff's style works better - crawl if you can and bump if not.

But it was entertaining to watch, so thanks for posting. And you made it look easy.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Right, it is the leverage needed w/o power steering, which corresponds to low gearing, that makes it hard to correct in a hurry.

I assume when they add P/S they change out the steering box for one with power and a higher ratio. But I've heard that there are P/S slaves that can be added to the drag link to add P/S w/o changing out the box.

I think there's a Saginaw box, maybe from a later Jeep, that they use most often. So yes, probably a faster ratio.

There are "hydro assist" cylinders that usually attach to the tie rod, but I suppose they could go to the drag link too. I usually see them on newer rigs that already have power steering and use this cylinder to reduce the effort as well as the stress on the steering box and frame (although with more stress on the tie rod and knuckles).

And I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Nothing Special

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

The next couple of trails "we" ran were a little much for me, so I went around. Then we got to a trail called Curly Wolf. The main part of this trail was beyond my comfort zone, but there was a much easier line up the left side. So I took that. There's a little video of me on that line and a whole lot of video of several of the others on the "fun" stuff. I decided not to include much of the others in my video, just a couple of bits to give a flavor. But if anyone wants to watch more of that, Jeff posted a video with all of that on his channel, so you can check out that link.

Gary Lewis

Re: Nothing Special's 2022 SMORR Trip

Administrator

I think the less difficult (not easy) line was the wise thing to do. There were a couple of times I cringed big time watching the green Jeep.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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