Lighting Upgrades

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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gsmblue
Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/JPw3GCTiK4E
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

kramttocs
Administrator
Did the bulb that came with it (the Hella) not work very well?
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I think Dr.Stern pointed out that most bulbs on the market use filaments that never heat to a bright white.
Thicker wire or less resistive material makes for a longer lasting bulb, but an orange glow.
Also imagine that most of these bulbs are called 12V, but in everyday use they might see voltages right up to 15.

Any time you burn the candle brighter, you burn it faster as well.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gsmblue
In reply to this post by kramttocs
I didn't realize they were going to come with bulbs, so I put those aside and went straight with the Philips.
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

kramttocs
Administrator
Gotcha. Tempted to try these. In daylight (lights off) how do they look aesthetically compared to the stock sealed style?

David - you still liking these?
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

1986F150Six
Administrator
kramttocs wrote
David - you still liking these?
Scott, if you are asking me, the Hellas with their supplied bulbs and the headlight relay system work great.
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

kramttocs
Administrator
Thanks - yep, you're the guy

I see daylight photos were added here so thanks, gsmblue, for that.
http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/1982-Bronco-351-4x4-Code-name-Esperanza-tp9221p78254.html

As far as retaining the factory look, these look good.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Angelo Voltura
In reply to this post by Rembrant
Gary, in my 1979 I did the clear lenses with removable H4 bulbs. I chose the ones with reflectors, however they do make projector housings which you can combine with HID bulbs. Combined with high wattage H4 bulbs and a relay harness, as long as you buy quality housings like Hella or KC, you won't have aiming issues and I can promise you that you will NOT need any more lighting.

I was kind of a guinea pig and experimented with LEDs etc. HIDs I tended to have issues with them as far as ballast resistors burning out, taking a while to warm up to actually turn on and produce the correct color temperature, and the initial buy in expense and cost of bulbs was off putting to me. LEDs tended to be alright as long as they had "CREE" brand diodes/chips. The only issues I had with those was on cheaper bulbs the cooling fans would burn out causing the diodes to overheat and periodically cut out. I was impressed with LED lights in clear/fair weather as far as brightness and throw distance (who doesn't like seeing clear across a 100 acre field), but in heavy snow or rain the glare was extremely reflective back at myself, and difficult to see; almost blinding in heavy snow itself, akin to "Star Wars" hyper-drive into space.

I find that color temperature makes more of a difference that actual brightness, and that throw is more relative to how well they are aimed more than actual wattage. 3k bulbs with their amber color tend to be clearer in bad weather but don't throw as far. The opposite occurs as you increase color temp range. You will still have excellent lighting with 55/65w H4 bulbs, but my personal preference was the higher wattage, just make sure you have the harness upgrade, because they draw a good amount of amperage and produce a good amount of heat, which isn't a bad thing if you drive in the winter months as it will melt the snow. I'm sure you know the relay harness in itself is an excellent upgrade even for standard sealed beams.

This was my experience with them and honestly, save for aftermarket light bars or any aftermarket lighting, I'm extremely impressed overall and as someone who drives many, many late model vehicles daily for work, I would say the light output, visibility and oncoming driver safety is actually far better than current models, which is saying something.
1978 F150 351W
1979 F150 "410M"
1979 F100 302
1979 F250 400
1987 F150 300
1990 F150 302
1991 F150 300
1995 F150 (1985 clip swapped) 300
1997 F250 351W
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Rusty_S85
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Jim - You are right that he wasn't very explicit on length of life.  But it isn't $212 for the bulbs.  Instead it is $43 bulbs and $168 for the headlights themselves.  I think I'm going to give both of them a try.  I don't do much night driving so the bulbs may last plenty long enough for me.

351FUN - I'm glad that the Rigid headlights are working out for you.  I don't doubt that at all as Rigid has an excellent reputation.  But I don't consider them "normal" or "halogen looking" headlights, and I want my headlights to look like the ones that came out on these trucks.  The pic below from the Amazon page shows they don't look like the standard headlights.

That's just a personal choice, and that limits me to halogen headlights as Daniel Stern doesn't think anyone is going to come up with approved LED headlights that look like halogen.  (Note that LED bulbs in a headlight made for a halogen bulb will not work properly due to the geometry involved.)

So you probably have better lighting than I'll have, but I'll have the looks that I want with improved lighting over what I have now.  


Eastwood had a post for a 7" round LED headlight that had simulated ribbing to emulate 60s-70s headlights, it wasnt very convicing but better than perfectly smooth clear housings.  How ever this post that I screenshot on Oct 7 was from 2018 and it has not been made and no more word from Eastwood about it and the post just disappeared.

I do believe a diffused housing would be produced one day for the older vehicles for restorations sort of like how Coker eventually made a bias look radial tire so people could have the best of both worlds, period look tires but modern composition and construction.



Aside from that, I dont know if my housings are still fine I havent even really looked but I bought the ECE Hella composite housings for my truck and I used the Silverstar Ultra bulbs and it was great, just wasnt too great being the ECE design as it didnt really light up the overhead signs but it did put a lot of light on the ground.  Below are some photos of my setup when new.  I did have to get new housings as my first set of housings were hazy out of the box and didnt pay much attention to them and it got worse by year 2.

Photo showing the design of the ECE Composite housings from Hella that I have


Low beam at dusk with Silverstar Ultra H4 bulbs


High beam at dusk with Silverstar Ultra H4 bulbs


High beam at dusk with Silverstar Ultra H4 bulbs and KC Apollo 6" 100w driving lights


Im going to stick with this layout and eventually if I can verify fitment of the Go Rhino roll bar I want to add two more pairs of KC hallogen lights, preferably two 100w spots and two 100w floods with the floods being on the outboard sides and spots in the middle.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, I realized recently that it has been almost a year since I asked Daniel Stern, of Daniel Stern Lighting, to tell me about the latest in retrofit automotive lighting.  His response is below, and is both very informative as well as lengthy.  And much of it is the same or similar to previous responses, but there is enough new info to make it a good read.

And I can see that I'm going to be spending $179 + 43.18 = $222.18 or more with Daniel in the near future.  

Hiya, Gary. Good to see from you. Some of this info you already know,
but I'm sending it all in one go so you have it all in one place:

The very best replaceable-bulb (H4) headlamps in the 200mm × 142mm
(large rectangular) size you need are made in Japan by Koito, one of the
top three makers of lighting equipment for the world's automakers. These
are the most efficient (greatest amount of light on the road), best
focused (most useful distribution of light), best-built (sturdiest glass
and metal materials, most careful build quality) lamps of their type in
this size.  They are in stock, and cost $179/pair; pic is attached.

There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes,
Adjure, Eagle Eye, Rampage, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, Pilot, Neolite,
Autopal, and dozens of other off-brand, poorly-made headlite-shaped
trinkets. You're wise to steer clear of it all.

The Hella lamp in this size is quite inefficient on low beam, which
means inadequate, short seeing distance, and it has an obnoxious focus
issue of excessive vertical distance between the low and high beam: if
the lows are aimed where they should be, the highs are up in the trees,
but if you put the highs dead-ahead as they ought to be, the lows are
shortly in front of your front bumper. The Koito lamps do not have this
irritating issue.

*Wiring*

You will definitely want to put in headlamp relays to take the workload
off the switches and bring full power to the lamps. The concept is
explained at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html
; in a nutshell it's because the car's existing wiring was designed to
be adequate for the original low-power lamps when everything was new,
and it doesn't improve with age. This can be achieved in a couple of
different ways of varying cost and difficulty. One way is with a relay
install kit RIK-2, $69.

The RIK includes all the needed relays, brackets, terminal blocks,
terminals, plugs, sockets, fuses and fuseholders, all in very fine
quality (not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store).
You supply your own wire (or your mechanic does) and use the parts from
the kit to build up your own wiring harness.

Or, I can have my harness builder custom build you a ready-to-install
harness assembly using the same high-grade components that go in my
build-it-yourself parts kits. Cost for this option is $199 (including
parts and build). It costs more than the cheap, failure-prone prefab
harnesses because it is not a cheap, failure-prone prefab harness.

Or, the sweet spot: I've got built-up, install-ready harnesses for
2-lamp vehicles like yours for just $99 (that's $100 less than
custom-built). These are quite nice (they easily pass the "would I use
it on my own car at night in the mountains" test), and they're a whole
lot better and more dependable than the poor-quality junk that's all
over the internet for about the same price. These are very nicely made
with name-brand high-current relays, splashproof fuseholders, quality
terminals and sockets and plugs, 14-gauge wire, etc. The only thing you
don't get is custom-tailored wire lengths. You won't have a "tuff luck,
won't reach" situation, but you might wind up tucking some extra cable
length neatly out of the way, or routing the cable under rather than
over the radiator (for example) to take up some extra length.

With either of the harnesses, installation is simple: you run the marked
wires to battery positive and to battery negative, snap the harness plug
onto one of the vehicle's original headlamp sockets, snap the harness
sockets onto the headlamps, mount the relays (they have an easy mounting
tab for a bolt or screw) and secure the cable runs and relays neatly out
of harm's way.

Either way, parts kit or built-up harness, the in-car switches continue
working normally, and you will not need to cut or otherwise disturb any
of the vehicle's original wires.

*Bulbs*

Bulb selection matters a _lot_ to how well you can (or can't) see at
night. Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results
. Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the
standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-efficacy bulb (bulb "C"). The
current best pick in 60/55w bulbs is  made by Tungsram (GE of Europe);
it is a +120 item that is a few developmental iterations improved over
the +80/+90 bulb "C" in the linked comparison. I keep them in stock for
$43.18/pair.  With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big
wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy
reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request.

Important note: any of the bulbs claiming to produce "extra white" light
(or super white, hyper white, platinum white, metal white, xenon white,
etc) as its main promotional "benefit" is best avoided. It doesn't
matter whose name is on the bulb -- Sylvania SilverStar/Ultra or ZxE,
Philips BlueVision or CrystalVision, Wagner TruView, anything from PIAA
or Hoen,, Nokya, Polarg, etc. -- all the same scam. They have a
blue-tinted glass, which changes the light color a little, but blocks
light that would reach the road if the glass weren't tinted, so they
give you _less_ light than ordinary bulbs (not more). To get
legal-minimum levels of light through the blue glass, the filament has
to be driven very hard so these bulbs have a very short lifespan, and
there's nothing about the tinted light that improves your ability to see
-- the opposite is true (less light = less seeing, no matter about the
tint). Sylvania got spanked  (see
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?388252-Sylvania-taken-to-task-for-their-false-claims-of-headlamp-superiority
) to the tune of thirty million dollars(!) for  false "upgrade" claims
on their Silver Star bulbs -- and theirs are among the least-bad of an
overall bad product category, so the math kind of does itself.

*LED headlamps:*

The "LED bulbs" now flooding the market, claiming to convert halogen
headlamps to LED,  are not a legitimate, safe, effective, or legal
product. No matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims,
these are a fraudulent scam. They are not capable of producing the right
amounts of light, nor producing it in the right pattern for the lamp's
optics to work. Same goes for "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or
fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether
it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.). They do not work safely or
effectively, which is why they are illegal. Legitimate LED headlamps do
not use a replaceable light source ("LED bulb").

If you wish more detailed info on these so-called "conversions", please
see
https://jalopnik.com/why-most-led-headlight-upgrades-dont-really-work-an-ex-1843070472
and
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
. Nutshell version: this is not like trying out different bulbs in the
kitchen or living room or garage, where all it has to do is light up in
a way you find adequate and pleasing. Headlamps aren't just flood or
spot lights; they are precision optical instruments (yes, even a cheap
and minimal headlamp counts as a precision optical instrument) that have
a complex, difficult job to do in terms of simultaneously putting light
where it's needed, keeping it away from where it's harmful, and
controlling the amounts of light at numerous locations within the beam
to appropriate levels (too much light in certain areas is just as
dangerous as not enough). Headlamps cannot just spray out a random blob
of light, and that's what they do with anything other than the intended
correct kind of light source.

And there's also a mountain of unsafe junk in the form of trinkets
claiming to be complete "LED headlamps", as well.  But there's a number
of engineered LED headlamps on the market -- they range in quality and
performance from pathetic to excellent. The best of them all is the JW
Speaker item in chrome
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S6TZSG/?tag=2402507-20 or in black
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0784NV3FK/?tag=2402507-20 . These are *not*
advisable if you do a lot of wintertime driving with heavy snow and
slush; the LED headlamp lenses run cold so snow and ice build up on them
instead of melting off like they do from a warm halogen lamp lens. There
is now a heated-lens version of the JW Speaker lamp to address this
issue; they, too, come in chrome:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0784PRXJM/?tag=2402507-20

or in black:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078C4WXTV/?tag=2402507-20

About the only other LED headlamps I'd point you at would be these
(specific) Truck-Lites:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081S922ZC/?tag=2402507-20 (heated lens).

You'll be shown a whackload of "Products like this" or "I bought these
for way cheaper"—all complete junk, do not buy.

Assuming your truck's wiring is in good shape, a relay harness isn't
needed or beneficial with LED headlamps.

*Lamp aim:*

Lamp aim is by far the main thing that determines how well you can (or
can't) see at night with any given set of lamps, so this is crucial: you
will need to see to it that the lamps are aimed carefully and correctly;
Koito halogen lamps per the "VOL" instructions; or JW Speaker LED lamps
per "VOR", or heated Truck-Lite LEDs per "older US lamps" as described
at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html .

Whichever headlamp option you choose, result of this upgrade will be
modern-car levels of headlamp performance: broad, even, bright white—not
brownish or bluish—well-focused low and high beams instead of the dim,
narrow tunnel of brownish light from the original sealed beams. Also
total elimination of backscatter in rain/fog/snow. Modern cars have a
range of headlamp performance; your headlamp selection determines how
high in that range your upgrade will get you.


*Fog lamps:*

Even very good fog lamps (which do exist, but aren't very common) are of
almost no use to most drivers in most conditions, but "most" doesn't
mean "all"; there are certainly plenty of places where _legitimate_ fog
lamps, installed and used thoughtfully, can be a big help. Please see
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html
for thorough information about what fog lamps will/won't and can/can't do.

_Daytime running lights:_

Daytime running lights—legitimate ones, configured appropriately for
automatic operation—are good to have. They significantly reduce your
risk of being in a crash during the daytime, and are required equipment
in Canada, throughout Europe, and in a large and growing number of other
countries throughout the world because they are a very cost-effective
safety device (i.e., they work). You can easily enable them in your
vehicle using a DRL-1 module ($59); see
http://dastern.torque.net/Mods/DRL/DRL1.html for instructions and
demonstration videos. This is the best way to put a daytime running
light function on a vehicle not originally equipped (or which has had
its headlamp-based DRLs disabled for installation of headlight relays).
The module enables the steady-burning operation of both front
directional signals as daytime running lights (except, of course, when
you're signalling for a turn). They produce a light distribution with a
wide view angle, are generally well located for DRL service at the
outboard edges of the front of the vehicle, consume considerably less
power than any headlamp-based DRL implementation, use light sources of
generally much longer life than a headlight bulb, do not encourage
improper nighttime use of lights, and do not require additional lighting
devices to be added. A large variety of vehicles from a wide array of
makers use this kind of DRL as original equipment. It is steady-lit
operation of the bright amber turn signals (except when they are
flashing to signal a turn) -- it is not steady operation of the dim
parking lamps; parking lights are not bright enough and don't have the
right view angles to serve the daytime running light function. Turn
signal DRLs comply with US and Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards
#108 and are approved in all states, provinces, and territories.

_Other upgrades:_

Can safely make your front sidemarker lights 3× brighter for safer
all-around visibility of the vehicle with direct-swap bulbs, $9.18/pair.

Your turn signals are presently invisible from the side, but there is an
easy modification you can make to the front side marker lights' hookup
so that they do double-duty as side markers _and_ side turn signal
flashers, see
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/markerflash/markerflash.html .
This is a very good safety improvement, as your turn signals become
visible to the side (cars in the next lane, bicyclists, pedestrians)
instead of just front- or rear-on. It is also fully road-legal, and the
brighter bulbs will mean your newly-activated side turn signal repeaters
are clearly visible in bright daylight, too, not just after dark.

With your two-wire side marker lights you have two options for how to do this,
both described at the link. Use the logic module method (module kit $59)
if you want the side markers always to flash in phase with the front and
rear indicators, or use the cross-feed method (no module required, just
a couple of wire connectors) if you don't mind opposite-phase flashing
of the front side marker light when the parking lamps or headlamps are
lit. Either way is legal throughout North America; elsewhere in the
world, international rules do not permit opposite-phase flashing.

When installing things like daytime running lights and sidemarker
flashing, It's best not to use the fold-over-and-crunch "Scotchlok" type
taps. Much better, more durably trouble-free result if you use
Posi-Taps, http://www.allpar.com/reviews/other/posi-tap.html . I don't
carry them, but if you'll get this assortment, you'll surely find uses
for them (they're one of those products that you buy for a particular
project, but then other uses for them keep popping up in front of you
once you have them): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RPDOAM/?tag=2402507-20

The main exterior signal lamps can safely be made 45% brighter with
special high-efficiency bulbs available (only) through the Honda parts
system.

The single-filament variety with a single contact in the centre of the
bottom of the bulb's base (replacing 1076, 1141, 1156, P21W, P25-1, and
a few others—these go in your reversing lamps) is
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IFP9P4O/?tag=2402507-20 .

The dual-filament variety with two contacts side-by-side on the bottom
of the bulb's base (replacing 1034, 1157, 2057, P21/5W, P25-2, and a few
others—these go in the brake lights and front turn signals) is
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFDIN0K/?tag=2402507-20 . These only come in
clear; if you need an amber bulb because your front turn signal lenses
are also clear/colourless, use
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IY7TGQ/?tag=2402507-20 .

Another easy safety pickup: put in a new-type turn signal flasher
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P4QLLL9/?tag=2402507-20 (2-prong like
original; connect its ground wire conveniently). These have much lower
internal resistance than the original type, for brighter turn signals.

"Ew, no, I want to put LEDs in my brake lights and turn signals!"
Welll…maybe and maybe not. Here's what to know about LED retrofit bulbs
in vehicle signal lamps (brake lights, tail lights, parking lights, turn
signals, etc).

First, the quick nutshell version:

-Answer to "Will it work?" is a whole lot more complicated than is
commonly understood.

-Fundamentally different kind of light source, so unlike with filament
bulbs, physical fit doesn't guarantee optical compatibility/acceptable
performance.

-Giant mountain of unsafe junk on the market, all fraudulently hyped as
an upgrade.

-A few legitimate products that work OK in _some_ of the lamps they fit
in; important to check the actual function carefully.

-Optical compatibility isn't the only issue; there's also electrical
compatibility and thermal concerns.

Now here's the long, detailed version:

Let's start with how signal lamps (parking lamps, turn signals, side
marker lights, brake lights, tail lights, reversing lamps) have to work.
It's a lot more complicated than just "Yep, that lights up and looks
good to me". Please take a look at this post, which I wrote years ago,
in re someone who was very ambitiously making his own LED taillights for
an old Dodge Dart:
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/66-dart-led-prototype-working-for-now.169147/#post-1635365

This info applies no matter what kind of light source we're working
with; I point you at it _not_ because I think you should go to the
use (or doesn't only use) a reflector bowl. Instead, these lamps have
Fresnel-type optics, the kind where the lens has a central magnifying
area directly in line with the filament of the installed bulb, and
spreader optics surrounding that magnifier. Often the magnifier is a
round bullseye and the spreaders are a series of round prismatic rings
surrounding the bullseye, but sometimes the magnifier is square or
rectangular and the surrounding prisms are rectilinear. The Bullnose
trucks use this kind of lamp for the front turn signals. If there's no
light directly out the front of the LED bulb, there will be minimal to
zero useful output from the lamp.

Philips used to make some LED bulbs that did have significant frontward
light, but they discontinued them and now they market two different
product families, both of which are inferior to that first family. Which
is unfortunate, but that's the world we live in.

There are the thermal issues with LED bulbs. Unlike with previous light
sources (light and heat coincident out the front of the lamp), an LED
puts out light from its front side and heat from its back side. The
light goes forward, the heat goes back. As the LED heats up, its light
output drops (it's called "droop"), so each LED must have an adequate
heat sink to carry the heat away from the emitter and prevent it heating
up high enough to drop the output low enough to put the lamp's output
below the minimum requirement. LED vehicle lamps (designed and
engineered as such) have to pass tests for output maintenance with
prolonged operation, because that's a real-world situation (stuck in
traffic with foot on the brake, tail/parking lights operating for hours
on end, etc). This is a challenging requirement for even legitimate LED
lamps, and it's a really difficult challenge for such a thing as an LED
bulb, because there's a very limited amount of space for any heat
sinking, and all of it's going to be inside the lamp there with the
heat-emitting LEDs—there's no way to use outside air to cool the LEDs
unless you have a big honkin' rear housing on the LED bulb. There are
some out there like this, and they create physical-fit problems (not
enough room behind the lamp for the big honkin' housing) and other
issues related to improper fit in the bulb hole.

Finally, there's another matter that affects the compatibility of LED
bulbs with lamps designed to use filament bulbs: most white LED bulbs
are high-CCT ("cold white"), like 5000K, 6000K, or higher. That's
cold/blue-white light. These white LEDs produce very little red light.
Put such an LED behind a red lens, and you get a dim, muddy,
pinkish-brown light that's way outside the boundaries of what's
allowable as red. This is a bad idea, as we're talking about lights that
are supposed to immediately convey the vehicle's position/direction of
travel and that it's decelerating. Messing with their colour, intensity,
and light distribution makes them unable to do their job keeping you
from getting hit.

If you want to try LED bulbs in the brake lights, you can try
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A77TV4Q/?tag=2402507-20 — these are the only
ones worth trying. That "try" language is deliberate; I repeat myself:
you'll need to carefully assess the performance of these bulbs in your
particular lamps by comparing them side-by-side with the original
incandescents as reasonably well described at
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?452592-How-to-Evaluate-Safety-of-LED-Bulb-Retrofits-in-Brake-Signal-Marker-Lights
  (and that new-type turn signal flasher linked above is _mandatory_
with LED bulbs).


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Cheers and drive safely,

Daniel Stern (he - him - his)
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gsmblue
Lots of great info there, I will have to read again later before ordering some of those items!
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, there is a TON of info in there!  Good reading and re-reading.  I've scanned it, read it, and am about to re-read it.  I'm especially interested in the side marker lamps 3x brighter and make them work in conjunction with the turn signals.  If I'm going to be pulling the headlight doors to put in new headlights I might as well do that at the same time.  And, put brighter bulbs in the turn signals.  And maybe make them DRL's.  

But in that email Daniel said "With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request."  So I asked him to explain that, and his response makes a lot of sense:

Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results
. Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the
standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-wattage bulb (bulb "D") is not as
good as with the high-luminance standard-wattage bulb (bulb "C").

As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both
in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam
focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of
light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament
the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same
time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at
the same time:

1) It fools you into thinking you've got "excellent" lighting. We humans
are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy
to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or
much worse) than we actually can.

2) It absolutely kills your distance vision. The brightly-lit foreground
causes your pupils to constrict, with the result that you can meaningfully
see all the irrelevant stuff going on within 50 feet of the car, and
beyond that, you're effectively blind.

And using massive overwattage low beams in a truck/van/SUV with
headlamps mounted higher than they are in a passenger car means you
either produce extremely
blinding glare for other road users (some of whom will write you tickets
for it), or you tip down the aim so far that your seeing range is sharply
geometrically limited.  Either way, you lose.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Rusty_S85
For LED auxiliary bulbs below is what I use with great success.

For my '78 Mercury the side light that lights up with the turn signal to illuminate around dark corners is a 1156 bulb.  When I fixed the system to functional I used a 90w 1156 LED projector bulb that looks just like the one below.  When I put the turn signal on it will actually illuminate my whole front yard and the neighbors front yard and side of their house.  With a traditional 1156 bulb it lit half my front yard up.



For the T10 wedge bulbs I typically use the 5 smd bulb as show below



I also have some 20 smd bulbs in the T10 wedge base as well as below.



Problem is you have to have some room, using one of these T10 wedge bulbs in amber on the fender side marker light will result in a super bright hot spot in the middle that appears white.  Its a big reason why I only use LED bulbs on the interior.  Another reason is you have to get a projector bulb like the one I first posted that is pushing 90W if you want an NOS flasher to function properly other wise the load will be too low and will have a weird flash pattern if you are lucky.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks, Rusty.  But could you provide some links?  The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing.  So if you know what works we need to document it.

And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller.  Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load.  I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's.  As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Rusty_S85
Gary Lewis wrote
Thanks, Rusty.  But could you provide some links?  The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing.  So if you know what works we need to document it.

And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller.  Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load.  I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's.  As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine.
I can provide some links but they might not be to the exact ones I bought as I bulked up and ebay doesnt go back far enough on purchases to get the exact vendors but most of them were vendors from China as I was able to buy them in 50 to 100 piece packs while the ones sold from mostly california in 2 to 10 packs are the same chinese bulbs that they get the bulk packs and break them down.

But for the T10 I pick up ones like this in the bulk pack.

Blue (avoid ice blue)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283617810756?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4208f05944:g:CNYAAOSwHRVdbzE9&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSwcmzw5CLtzTE60FqHcnq2Oz1d0WAmyDSU6APbw4YYAM4%252FHdTg7NXnZ65P7TfDpqLtVhc6ChZudmP%252FPHIem5K%252Fz8yQZvdaXR5U0jWLTJH1r2nqY5aBCGOsnBpC6Obp83BiOygSTBrtGWB3ecUB4%252BB9mdrDoHxShDHRlen7Zj%252FbJeomIobvDvQLHo2h2zU3cZG1wJdMXgiIZn5TLLaczaS2KM2RcvGN6nwSjIeXPl4u0Mh8s6DwuCHlIyYEzofhNDTTre3OTnhfZ%252FEmeQMOIECP6la8qjrnw1VZwPKVrYnsGgFgiZmVN9rIQPN31ZIwm5hh%252FjN5CXRiS7S36unBWnbn2aa8FjaDaQFj9WJQUcLV51xlzOPIqJw0JCPDrj24lhDvTU6nMv9V5V%252B6PYUxA7TmfRMhC3HMBZvmJ4omUDtu76pd2s%252BfaScxEaqTjZjQ1bfHaApTOW11hhmwNZyiKQ7ZXjRwdpO%252FSODOTZEOMLbPP%252Basue%252Bm7Q%252FUkereo%252B8zRBME2CLv5U0TJluC65NsoiXAwGLUhABgWyJqYkGDUczCgRyyi7CZBDEciHjHnzzAq3zcRtUH2OsdnVaMiGk%252BPT3iY213gViwYtsj8deIEZRCvsQSIJW7lyUBg7d1OpK1HFSjCnaSSca3tESxYtaqa%252F4nJACaAxQVODSkEREd45u40uUHCeX5RO4OO3wwsa1wIzfuVQSzVrSUhtPdJ58UmCG%252B%252Fy3LirnHaOVwFptPps7D3YRCgYAp977JMCpHaPjd3WmPksgjbTj6kZAcNieiEggFEzNivWwb0uuhEcFj1%252FRXUaZGqdD5dZUdM1lscgnV1KDWOaMaJY3g7RtiwvSx0BOGQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMipD5_pdf

Amber
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192914634529?hash=item2cea9bb721:g:rIUAAOSwiTRc2OE6

Red
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324845555471?fits=Model%3A5&hash=item4ba24dcf0f:g:NMYAAOSw2KxhYSPO

Green
https://www.ebay.com/itm/403196707736?hash=item5de0658398:g:Oh8AAOSw8YxhU-XO

Warm White
https://www.ebay.com/itm/194342323179?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d3fb483eb:g:TdcAAOSwm8VhNrKr&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd3M8ngECaRA0SmyU4KT%252Fnlk8GWnO4k5Y4oVxZkIEL5GUiE932K8TiP6%252Fu%252B58rTaTfSzNK3gRt3iBWNOoGS8DVx%252BrtIWgUA6RVuAuW4XpngfMSPzg6bd5q0OY3UNpWA8QfkN6MLZhXOCQaDy%252B7gSWPw%252BuTqfRnbreYgnNbt%252B3rOgs0A%252BGzJZlDCp2AeJjUXLCXqvVGB9vu6LWmu3sZZ9utGPcnfS2bVtDMaBXZy9xtGjrsDlmy0GuXxhQIR7PZ80r%252Fg2euJ4I5j3mEaQY40kimH1S96%252BEMv32%252FSm4JQdFjQjbuYk33rpwMbNJxFoZrOVQL783orrkqEJRbN7qDwmlhuIfmk8k1gpciN6YZnomRE6B7SSYT8o50oLZXPFlD%252F3je9WduYmtE4fxGMMIjf8Inr%252BbgNTlAlYXgtHdwSXCqypvS2mfVKMIY%252FJZIlnSc5mDDu7fVjBBKdDR8yCe75DyIZ4s%252BMsEXBn0QAQpcUpOXOeLAAnO7ASsfwxNeVCp9%252FeF8brE80F7iSi1Qb%252FGqxw%252F9H5TRouyIhtBg4UF95nr44lnEmj0Q4p%252FcQQnT%252BJERK0p%252FU9XbYQwqf3b1KDP%252BezCT8YLm0iUPgtggwJ4tOTd%252BW7hkmihwmhcuN1jN9CZPNAll%252FRFGrPcjOMimsIim%252BekZrIgVP9%252FsqzJAHrGcKFbmrhqQ7ouejJvbyWzrXo9NtcyERjns7XN97CR7boQOqDr53HSg0pAjJVl6Y4GLQtVEuwRf5IT8rSkbnvzUhSAOoLviFp3Cuxdo5CmXUvvq9X%252Boq54dTINZI91ud84TaPDYzffbAdUkJIZMASnvQyOCi91AS8tgxcfwWPAojw6qrZj4pu6QvKQtWY1j%252BHJn1axfhc%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMksiX_5df

White
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233464157227?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item365b8c542b:g:6BAAAOSwWl5eHCgO&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmca10VglFEE3HNeGNTwmJ4ugLDJ%252FQVgr%252Bq%252BIhh2WlYpcgvfa1gQts2d5GLL2oe46vKQstpxXSMkZ1qVlxODaJe0Ro4Sh1iQW42R3DI8PJPbFTCvhwRqTLiRM1PJUt8jA5RmWdNZ7eH%252B3rsQeFrQdFwPHNLPDXlsRxxJXuG2NTWVINvlvAu2D%252FObmc3Mh3u6NJyoCG14HBhGewB6MiKh1arzWG4CkRBWMBZ6mWRUr%252BjUK66uxVajMERXz%252BeCTA3XQMXiVbD1xVQQ6fZFBgrztduj9fuUs6x7s%252FMecZaUtIsfnGpdUfJf2mQX5kklAD8hifMGt8R9oVEn%252F9Nwqc5fYKLStWTNli%252BPUaCpTNF8PGxzyFeC%252BKuLq%252FsC%252F7FYm6bOtpRjwhh7HCjQEGXk82q3DxE4Lmy5kSUjyVuT45k%252B2Alhd%252BBbIN7kNCrYe2JaQmOBZ1JwrxhSRY0BM%252FgoAL1qI%252FgJo6DkBIvA3Khj1mNCgyduFd3BfeBvccFu3R%252BSVgUm6KJWB2DztQO7jy%252F4CzSkoLFVxxVWOs%252FQ29Cdam4%252BTfC%252F9USY38E%252FxKZGuAzLA0c9i5XWj6y98ZLfoc0xVJ5Ul7h4jeqFu%252F4Aps%252F%252FvywaIILUQOM%252BNYqiittEZQ%252FAigGWUCYlRHBVaLspez%252Fz4XsVTDRfyR9iRmwxekBVUavM%252BhD17sBP3N%252FrLC4qhKYclv%252FcYEGmUYDE3Ux%252FBkPYoTsygmDIvHkEnKKlEM%252F%252BczEreU4IDijl5lFfZvQPQBEJ%252BRBv3%252Fc%252F5SylafMDzIW3uHKAnwVfCuoMfDo7TB0sSzbHH2AEdhg5VdPoraSae%252BnuG%252FC58fw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMivyZ_5df



For the 1156 projector bulb

Red
https://www.ebay.com/itm/232312527629?hash=item3616e7db0d:g:0yEAAOSwZcxdlNWj

Amber (seems they dont have the old style anymore this I think is the new style still 80W)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282612810097?hash=item41cd094171:g:~uYAAOSwehVaj7mX

White
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274901922035?hash=item40016e70f3:g:c0MAAOSwo8hTp7z2

Then for 1157 bulbs for turn signals and brake lights

Red
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174710519562?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28ad8ef70a:g:-MgAAOSwXW9gYXOQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSDAeS9EQtjPGVfKXTxF0%252Bjg4GqXdZ2lk%252FeTRbYXn2y2RvqgPqeL2pQsSvpniYSce5cHR67LFXc1WHnNgbQWhIJ1MNhQyMhvylXIxb0MG599LUu2ySRM8m5Ql5%252FSnZpDbMILB24eD0dkPjB9o3slLic8TARXbjQOWyIP3I%252Bj00Q%252B0qVGzIjQh0Bw8pQN4OQkftTelEM%252Bzq6e%252B9t3AT7IybNu9jBp%252FEnAtbmU%252BcVLhQa97p28IS5WcjWWg%252FpZmecCvo1i7Yoxo2PRPgm9m3NgxSHVB%252Br1r6t2lIwqFz10Q9CkixPJITZGnjrznuzPmTL0B4L1F%252BO0opTzsDQp1ICCQA07mfqfm2w28zfATAeaso8fAWyH5AJN3CePKljGOZ1vlRQ4EcPjdeqU0M5RBnmmtqNMF4Ss3arAlSjTM4hh7EqYssWMlVVu8r%252BqlABBFVj41dbprJVRlMXU1vZykuo9Tj43Tv0RbZjyrZ%252BdZkak911g1WQm8I%252BYBJXtKRQK8EFruBtYtOEPCHy4Zi%252B%252FA2NuhRDWk1cZ9LT9EsPczYc3J5BHUdikHRrtAzCBW3%252BCtK0IVAXuCIhri8CKcIXOO9W%252FsEfBa8nuEU6QI%252FqjbGCO%252F6In8PRaFL1E80EyocTCG7%252Brllupg%252BaJ9oahkZXROk2luV2hW432PsbH8LlZ%252F3nrnzm8K7v%252BLZICEE6xo%252FVkj4Bi4c8pxBqu%252FMFMT%252Fq30rKFS%252BBVLdjTjmbDy3ONSJnh4s5F1qqN%252BCld%252FhVnKF6JhvBeAVc5hBp9tjh97e%252FCOkVazbmBKNmsU0CNFw%252FI9rcf69FMNEM7OYNe2Iq9i9s5lfvgveN5FwFbAVcoUe%252FMc8uUUj9vHU5Y0vSY4%252FhJM%252FYDBM4FI%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM9p3B_5df

Amber (no listings online for this model)

If you are going to run back up lights in LED these are in my LED bulb box and I would use them in various applications based off how much room I have for the bulb.

1156 13-smd super white
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333246570013?epid=28034772841&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4d970b1e1d:g:QtsAAOSwPzZfH6oD&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe7fBudMHwkTbmvQumRdK4sngdEFMRJZ22OPa06WJbySzRXhnNJkAx3jn2nj69ka1%252F8UDSfJyy%252Fs4FAEUFDSPFQcEM2ZJWb9SBjZ8psFuGWAAUrC0%252BRIt%252Bj9d2RGBqRFQs%252FgSeex8Akc8BPjUOepexCNvPgP9w29TJRSU8ARDqtSB44GZcUP90%252BHGtJKS9DkxJ7jX30fglU%252FXgqz9I%252FysUWU%252BQwRc5tS4RNW4A4Pa0CXP1%252BLH%252Fv3fGTOgCxBYJ02lgFGfo%252BJFYGm0IixyDjsssomNJVAYCJi2zcJ5weFDLWA6%252FO8c%252BvltuG3iowd1pecMZk6N3PMAFeUMIYRKArdwygIkP4wOjSZJXbkzyVUwD2Ktykjw8H1jBlljtfBXUfBU4SGXB2GJ3EZf3BDHin8i4%252BfXak%252FbMmiP9bbqZ6gtuzyG5LGA5TrPjn9TjBj9h56D3qoVKi27TtwPtL3XH2aAkYyeGqTtcYi2YVcURdQUgP8Nmw028Ki3Q26a00tw3t9rfa2%252FHwREpcIinRynCIJ0wDUpkA3wRWSgeilyfnRuGhMRhxCXIVtn3XBU1NqmMUpyaINtf%252FFfbU5rCQ6Z5HL47TaxFZsp9%252FmBXnI3y3iEgnm%252FpeFNtJ97E%252FeOvLJMV93BURCASyQQ6wOZcCtaesoXqGGSEfJYtwdoZwSWWwH58PHod6AfNP1RhJkTHovGxQcJ62J6ZidReqHmevEPttBSF7WymfdqwHYEVg2IfBoivTJxk6hKPGVFqpMbeMyarjxFRX%252FJfGS1z0SsCUHqpe3gLWZhQEBy8hEmBonQkFKron6l6VzdXaYpOhJHlKG6TiM65g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmtzG_5df

1156 64-smd super white
https://www.ebay.com/itm/193636612369?epid=4042886641&hash=item2d15a43911:g:PXcAAOSwUkVgZHCk

1156 22-smd super white
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402659853645?hash=item5dc065c54d:g:n4wAAOSwLjpgDo8Q

The last one I use in very limited space for back up lights, these would be a last resort as they have more of a spot light effect than bouncing light around the housing providing a more even lighting.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks, Rusty.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Gary Lewis
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This post was updated on .
Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year.  Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern.

Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series?  I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing.  And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available.  Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights.  And my research found that almost everyone loved them.  Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums.  Therein Virgil said:

"I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how."

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Rusty_S85
Gary Lewis wrote
Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year.  Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern.

Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series?  I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing.  And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available.  Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights.  And my research found that almost everyone loved them.  Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums.  Therein Virgil said:

"I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how."
Yep thats why I never posted on here when the Retrobright LED bulbs came out by Holley.

A) They are insanely expensive for what you are getting.  For our trucks the 5"x7" they are $199.95/ea for the Modern white, Classic White, and Yellow.  Thats $400 for lights for our trucks, for something like my '78 Mercury that has four bulbs thats $800.

B) There were no real test done on them which makes them very questionable to me.  If there is no testing done that is provided and you cant really find legit comparisons odds are they are no good.  It goes back to the K.C. LED Day Lighters, they claim those two tiny LED bulbs facing the reflector provides more light that is properly focused than a 100w Halogen bulb.  I do not believe that and no where online can you find anything by official sources making a proper comparison, just a bunch of "these are cutting edge technology that is far superior than halogen bulbs".

In the end the concept is a great one, its just like for the restoration market it would be cool if someone would make concours bulbs that are LED for improved lighting but they look no different than the original bulb.  Like for Ford make the rare raised FoMoCo logo in the middle and for GM can make the T3 triangle logo in the middle.  If they did that then I would consider giving it a go.

This is a channel I follow on youtube cause it tends to show more details and its a interesting channel of a restoration being done by themselves.  This is their video on comparison of the old sealed beam bulbs and the new Holley RetroBright bulbs that they were sent by Holley, they also have time stamps so you can skip to the RetroBright testing.  They do look like they have a good low beam pattern but the high beam pattern looks a little questionable.  They should be adjustable by tilting the bulb housing but its not something Id be willing to spend that much money on to give it a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNXxRHDF7wQ
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

ArdWrknTrk
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Gary will be glad to know that Sentinel Capital Partners now also owns MrGasket, as well as Holley....  😁
https://www.holley.com/brands/

Expect what you will . I don't expect product which is "Good Enough" to see further development.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Lighting Upgrades

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Great thread Gary,

I need to buy new 7" round headlights for my '52 pickup so I'll give this a read. I simply want the best bang for the buck, so not necessarily the brightest lights, but the brightest for the least amount of money .

By the way, are daytime running lights a thing in the US yet, or no? I have imported a few trucks from the US and always had to add the little aftermarket DRL kits to make them compliant up here;).
1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

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