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Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

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MarktheV

Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Hi All,

A few rookie questions for the knowledge base.
Wondering if there's a consensus on whether the Chilton or Haynes manuals provide a more comprehensive guide on system diagrams and parts.

My goal here is to better understand the EGR/emissions equipment on my 84's 2bbl 302, and eventually to understand what can be eliminated or blocked off with aim at adding a bit more grunt into the motor.

Along with this my intention is to look at adding a exhaust and ideally a mild cam like the Comp Cams 260H which I believe is designed to work with stock lifters, springs, etc.

Anyway- I saw the section noted for literature but didn't find a subject on repair or vehicle manuals.

Any insight is appreciated!
Mark

'84 F150 5.0L 2WD LWB

Steve83

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Banned User

Chilton's might have more diagrams, but Haynes is better-written.

Ford didn't put any extra parts on the engines - everything there helps it run better. The EGR system is what allows it to make more "grunt"; without it, you can burn through the pistons (in addition to making more acid rain & making the vehicle technically illegal on any public road regardless of local inspections). The hardware & software that controls the EGR changed slightly over the years, but the basics are the same as described in this caption:

The closer you keep your engine to factory, the better it will run, for less money, with less maintenance, for more miles. If you want more power, swap in a more-powerful modern engine, and keep ALL its systems working as-designed. That's how I kept my '83 Bronco rolling so well & reliably for ~23 years after the original engine was worn out; I dropped in a complete '95 4.9L with all the '95 emissions systems intact. When that truck wore out, I moved the engine into a '93 frame & body, and I'm still driving it. It now has ~1 million miles withOUT a rebuild, and runs the same as day 1.

grumpin

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Steve83, question. On my truck, 1986 F250 HD, 460, C6. No PCM, no catalytic converter.

Most of the emission equipment missing. How can I get my EGR valve to operate off of an engine vacuum source?

I have the VDV vacuum delay valve.

Can I use a vacuum source through the VCV, through the VDV and to the EGR?

I tried several things before winter, and don't remember exactly, and I thought when I tried the above setup, the EGR stayed on.

Please excuse the thread hijack!

Edit: Sorry, like Steve83 said, I would probably have both Haynes and Chilton's. But I prefer a factory service manual if possible.

Like this: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7165236&cc=1121443&jsn=461

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Rembrant

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

In reply to this post by MarktheV

MarktheV wrote

Wondering if there's a consensus on whether the Chilton or Haynes manuals provide a more comprehensive guide on system diagrams and parts.

I can't comment on the Chilton manual, but I do have the Haynes manual and I personally find it to be far too general to be much help with anything specific. It has fluid capacities and fluid types which is handy, but I haven't had much use for it otherwise.

The factory service manuals are a much better option for a few extra bucks. I've purchased mine on Ebay from the seller below:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Ford-Truck-Shop-Manual-5-Book-Set-on-CD-F150-F250-F350-Bronco-Van-Service/162670399947?fits=Year%3A1984%7CModel%3AF-150&hash=item25dfe951cb:g:pusAAOSw9EJZtwV6

You can find the paper copies on Ebay as well, but they're usually fairly expensive. I personally prefer them in .pdf format. That way I can print only what I need, which is usually just a page or two at a time.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Rembrant

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

In reply to this post by MarktheV

MarktheV wrote

Along with this my intention is to look at adding a exhaust and ideally a mild cam like the Comp Cams 260H which I believe is designed to work with stock lifters, springs, etc.

I just checked the specs, and that 260H is almost the same as the XE256H that I have installed in my '84 302. Might be worth having a look at Comp Cam's XE "Extreme Energy" series. The XE250H and XE256H are really popular for lightly modded 302's.

I spent quite a bit of money on my 302, and it is still only a very mild build by most people's standards. I was trying to get as much power as I could out of it (on a budget) while keeping it very streetable and smooth. I wanted a little bit of that hotrod feel, but I also didn't want thing to idle poorly and be a pig on fuel either.

Of course the basics are Cam, Carb, and Exhaust. Cylinder heads are next on the list, and there are a dozen options here. A very cheap upgrade is to install a set of E7TE heads from a later 302...1987-1996. I don't think in stock form they flow any better than the existing D8 heads on the '84 302, but they would give you a good bump in compression.

I recently picked up a set of E7TE heads for $50 bucks for the '85 302 I'm building. This one is going to be a budget build and it's getting mostly junkyard upgrades;).

Gary Lewis

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Administrator

Removing the emissions equipment is a fairly complex undertaking on that engine as the computer runs everything from what I remember, from timing on the ignition to air/fuel ratio on the carb to the EGR. And if you remove much of any thing the computer gets its knickers in a twist and locks the timing and you get poor power and economy.

And even if you could remove the EGR w/o the computer knowing you'd then have a timing problem as the computer assumes EGR and advances the timing significantly to accommodate the slow flame travel time with exhaust gas in the mix. So if you remove the exhaust gas you'll have a pinging situation.

So it is an all-or-nothing proposition. You'd have to replace the distributor and ignition system, meaning convert to DS-II. But many of the distributors still have an advance curve expecting EGR, so you'd need to find the right one there.

Not that it can't be done, as lots of people have done it. But you just need to thing through the whole scenario and not start removing things without a comprehensive plan. And while we cannot advocate it due to the legal ramifications, if you decide to do it we can help with the planning.

As for manuals, I use Ford, Ford, and then Ford. I have a Chilton or two and several Haynes, but highly prefer the Ford ones.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Rembrant

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Gary Lewis wrote

...meaning convert to DS-II.

Hey Gary, wasn't the switch to EEC-IV a mid year or late year change in 1984 for the 302? My '84 302 was a factory DS-II truck, and I know there have been others that were as well.

I guess my point is, his truck may already be DS-II...

Gary Lewis

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Administrator

Good point. I assumed, and I shouldn't do that.

So, the question is whether or not the distributor has a vacuum advance unit on it. If it does it is DS-II. If not, it is EEC.

Or, does the ignition box have a blue grommet or a brown grommet? Blue is DS-II and any other color is some form of EEC.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Gary Lewis wrote

So, the question is whether or not the distributor has a vacuum advance unit on it. If it does it is DS-II. If not, it is EEC.

Or, does the ignition box have a blue grommet or a brown grommet? Blue is DS-II and any other color is some form of EEC.

I could be way off base here, but it has been my perception that there weren't that many EEC 302's, at least not in 1984. I know this is only anecdotal, but it seems like every time I see a discussion or questions regarding converting from EEC to DS-II, it is almost always in reference to a 300/6 truck.
Now the confusion I add here is that I'm not in the USA, and our emissions were different up here. I've looked at several 1984-1986 300/6 trucks here, and they were all DS-II. The 302 always seems to be a can of worms in all regards...lol. It seems like the EEC 302 showed up later in 1984, or just randomly in 1984, and the 302 went EFI sometime in mid 1985 production.

Still, USA and Canada emissions differences aside, I have seen USA market 1984 302 trucks with factory DS-II.

Just another layer on another onion eh Gary?...

First thing I always look for to identify an EEC/feedback carb truck is the big harness coming through the firewall next to the throttle cable and engine ground strap. DS-II trucks will just have a rubber plug there.

Gary Lewis

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Administrator

Cory - I don't have much experience with the 302's. The only ones I've been around have either been Cash's 1980, which was before the advent of EEC, or Ray's 1986 w/EFI.

But the difference in Canadian and US emissions laws does play into this, so you might see fewer EEC's than we do down here.

As for the cable, in '82 the computer was under the driver's seat, so the cable went under the cab and not through the firewall. I know that because the cab on Dad's truck is from an '82 and has the hole under the seat, and I remember removing the computer from there. (And, an EEC-V computer may go back there.)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Banned User

In reply to this post by grumpin

grumpin wrote

How can I get my EGR valve to operate off of an engine vacuum source?

Ford had about 86,000 ways of managing EGR via vacuum. Browse the vacuum diagrams that Gary has to find some that look like they could have been how your truck was built, and start there. But generally: once the factory vacuum lines are ripped out, there's no going back. If you want it to run better, go FORWARD, to a newer engine with better controls & more-efficient emissions management.

Frank Wyatt

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

In reply to this post by grumpin

I have the EGR on my 300 i inline hooked up through ported vacuum. Like that the EGR valve only operates when I am going down the road and the engine is not under load and is at high vacuum. When the engine gets under a load and the vacuum drops, the EGR valve closes. That is how it was originally routed except I do not have the the temp controlled vacuum valve plumbed in at this time and probably will leave it like that as it is working just fine and my engine is happy.

1981 F 150 Custom 300 ci with a fully rebuilt 1968 240 head Carter YFA T-18 3.25 9" rear 2WD
dual gas tanks
1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 AOD
Home town Mc Kenzie, TN

grumpin

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

"Ford had about 86,000 ways of managing EGR via vacuum. Browse the vacuum diagrams that Gary has to find some that look like they could have been how your truck was built, and start there. But generally: once the factory vacuum lines are ripped out, there's no going back. If you want it to run better, go FORWARD, to a newer engine with better controls & more-efficient emissions management."

Yes, kind of where I'm at, leaving it as is, that is! I do have my vacuum diagrams to go off of. Thanks.

"I have the EGR on my 300 i inline hooked up through ported vacuum. Like that the EGR valve only operates when I am going down the road and the engine is not under load and is at high vacuum. When the engine gets under a load and the vacuum drops, the EGR valve closes. That is how it was originally routed except I do not have the the temp controlled vacuum valve plumbed in at this time and probably will leave it like that as it is working just fine and my engine is happy."

I do have a note to try the ported vacuum when the weather is better and I have time. Good to hear yours is working. Thanks.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

MarktheV

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by MarktheV

I have a 1yr old running around by my feet, so I'll have to mass-respond here:

But thank you all for the time and insight!

Definitely would love to update the entire motor to a new item, but for now time & budget will likely restrict me to looking at exhaust & some combination of cam before moving down the upgrade list.
I do have a nice 60k mi 4.6L Grand Marquis that could someday make a nice donor, but for now it's reliably moving my wife and baby around:)

Thanks for the heads up on the cam and head ideas! I'll check these out and compare with CompCam's recommendations for best choices for RPM range and retaining stock intake & valve springs.
I will keep an eye out for some E7TE heads for when the time comes for the next step in motor work.

I'll investigate the Ford pdf's to get a better idea of diagrams.

Enjoy this awesome spring weekend!

'84 F150 5.0L 2WD LWB

Gary Lewis

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Administrator

If you could find the calibration code (Specifications/Calibration Code) then I think I could find the exact vacuum routing diagram for you. If not we may be able to get it down to 3 or 4 calibration codes and then find the vacuum diagram for each and you can try to figure out which is the closest one to yours.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

MarktheV

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Thank you, Gary. I'm away from the truck until next week but will take a look to see what is noted

Mark

'84 F150 5.0L 2WD LWB

85lebaront2

Re: Chilton vs Haynes? Seeking engine/EGR diagrams for '84 302

Administrator

You will now begin to understand why a number of us have gone to later EFI systems, much simpler plumbing.

As for Chilton's vs Haynes, depends on whether you like glossy or plain toilet paper. I personally do not waste my money on either one.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413