81 F100 flare side custom with 300 six & T18

Gary Lewis wrote

In other words, if you find slop it is time for a new box.

that's what I am afraid of.
I am not sapose to be peeling this onion any more just enjoying it!
I just have to check it out when I remember.
Dave ----

You've got a pretty small onion at this point though!

Mine is still an award winner at the state fair.

salans7 wrote

You've got a pretty small onion at this point though!

Mine is still an award winner at the state fair.

Well said, Shaun!  

Having to catch up on my sleep, 4 hours a night up at 12am or 1am and not home till 5pm or later catches up so got a late start on the speedo gear fix.

Got to say the hardest part was trying to remove the flat snap ring to get the gear off the out put shaft.
It would have been easy if I could have found my piston ring pliers but that last time I seen / used them was 6+ years ago before the move.

With the drive & driven gears swapped out I moved to the shifter tower plate as I could see oil dripping down the side of the trany case.
When working on the tail housing it looked like someone had been in this thing and when I removed the top plate as saw the RTV used as a gasket it was changed to YES!

I found all but 2 bolts loose and was thinking to just tighten them but know it would come back to bit me and good thing I did remove the plate.
There was not a lot of the RTV left to seal and I found something else.


Or is that not found?
It is missing the plastic pad on the reverse fork.
Now when shifting if you try too hard or to fast it has a hard time going into 2nd & 4th gears, as in not hard going into gear but grinding. Like if you went into granny low or reverse while so I wonder if reverse was moving a little and the cause of the grinding?

I found a set of 5 plastic pads for $8 and free shipping. I could not see 3 day shipping for $15 on a $8 part but would be nice if I got it before the holiday.
Dave ----

Aren't you glad you took it apart!!!!  Gonna shift lots better with those pads on the forks.  In fact, you are lucky it shifted at all.  Had an NP208 w/o the pads and it wouldn't go into 4LO.  Just couldn't move things that far w/o them.

And, you got the drive gear swapped.  

Tranny ought to be much smoother, shouldn't leak, and the speedo ought to work to boot.  Is it about time for a Bloomin' Onion?  

I'm just seeing this, what a fantastic project you've done here.  Thanks for sharing it.

Gary Lewis wrote

Aren't you glad you took it apart!!!!  Gonna shift lots better with those pads on the forks.  In fact, you are lucky it shifted at all.  Had an NP208 w/o the pads and it wouldn't go into 4LO.  Just couldn't move things that far w/o them.

And, you got the drive gear swapped.  

Tranny ought to be much smoother, shouldn't leak, and the speedo ought to work to boot.  Is it about time for a Bloomin' Onion?  

I hope it shifts better as it shifts worst than my work truck and that 10sp has no synchros.  

Yep speedo should work.
The old drive and new were the same colors, burgundy.
The driven was white 17 tooth and I went with burgundy 16 tooth.
IIRC I have 2 17 tooth & a 18 tooth to dial it in once on the road.
I know the cable turns with out binding so hope good there.
Dave ----

tdm3 wrote

I'm just seeing this, what a fantastic project you've done here.  Thanks for sharing it.

Thanks
It only took 4 years doing all the work myself.
From what it was to this it came out way better for a driver than most would think.
If I have it together for Friday I will take it to work and then Saturday trash to the dump.
BTW I bought the truck for $800 to take the trash to the dump each week.
Dave ----

So, it 'only' took four years and how many  for it to fulfill its intended purpose???  

Dave, you've done an amazing job!  😎

At least it's kept you off the streets and out of trouble....

ArdWrknTrk wrote

So, it 'only' took four years and how many  for it to fulfill its intended purpose???  

Dave, you've done an amazing job!  😎

At least it's kept you off the streets and out of trouble....

Yep picked it up December 2015.

I have not gone thru the bag of papers to see how much I have spent.
I can tell you just in the red & white paint is a $1000, and nothing else.

Yes kept me off the streets but in trouble with the wife the whole time
Thanks
Dave ----

Two ways to tell which one loves you more, your wife or your dog....

A) Take them both for a ride in the trunk of your car and see which of them is happy you stopped to let them out.

B) Pay more attention to your latest 'project' than either one of them.
The dog still waits for you to get home and is wagging it's tail.

At least if you have a dog, you likely have a dog house to sleep in!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Two ways to tell which one loves you more, your wife or your dog....

A) Take them both for a ride in the trunk of your car and see which of them is happy you stopped to let them out.

B) Pay more attention to your latest 'project' than either one of them.
The dog still waits for you to get home and is wagging it's tail.

At least if you have a dog, you likely have a dog house to sleep in!

I have 2 dogs but no dog house.
They scratch at the door if want out or in, even the cat does that.

For sleeping I do have my garage with fridge / freezer, microwave and a propane heater.
Just no bath room but bears don't need one so guess I am set if I get kicked out
Dave ----

I forgot to say I drained the oil out of the transmission and left the plug out to drain good but the rear was still up on jack stands.

I picked up 2 qt of 75w-90 gear oil, I have a little more if it comes up low.
Lowered the back on the tires to drain the last bit of oil out.

I also looked a little closer at the gears and I see the reverse gear and what I think is the idle gear looks a little warn. It looks like the gears had been making contact for a bit, nothing broken or chipped just worn away.

I also made the rod from the booster to the master shorter as I knew it was too long and it may have been keeping the brakes on. I did not smell the brakes or see / feel anything hot but the truck would not roll like I think it should. I do know it is short as it no longer pushes the master away from the booster.
When I get the transmission back together I will give the brakes a test.

If the emails I have got said the shift fork pad set should be here before the holiday and if so hope to get the truck back together so I can drive it.
Dave ----

Truck is back together but not with out a scare!
I got the truck all together and before starting it I went to "run it thru" the gears and put it in 1st not granny, and the shifter had a whole lot of play. I was like WTH!
Started it and found it was in reverse? And I never even tried that gear?

So I pulled the floor cover and the shift lever, gave a look down inside and see 1 of the shift forks is not inline with the others and I am thinking that the reverse shift fork did not line up right as it is way down inside the works but if the tower is inline and it was pulled apart that way then what?

With a hope & prayer I used a screw driver to line everything back up pop the lever back in and see what I had. It felt good as it went thru all the gears, then started it and did the same.
That checked out good so out for a little test drive.

Just moving from my garage to the house I could see the speedo moved.
Out on the road with out the floor cover there is a lot of noise from everything! LOL
It does not shift any better. It is like the spacing thru the middle left & right is to tight but you cant feel what gear it should go in. I have driven truck with this type of transmission so know how it should feel.
The lever & tower all looked good so don't know where the issue could be?

I was also keeping an eye on the speedo & RPM thinking something was off and knowing most of the time traffic is moving faster than the posted limit.
I also took down the mileage to see just how far I went. This was the same path I took on its first test drive that failed with no brakes & broken clutch linkage.

It came out to 7.5 miles around the block and this time all was good.
I ran a quick calc on the RPM & speed and looks to be pretty close.
One day I will use my truckers GPS as it has a speedo built into it to see if it is close enough.

I also checked the play in the steering and I did not really think it is all that much.
It may be I am use to the R&P in my DD Dodge?
I know when I first got the truck going from my 86 K5 Blazer I was driving it like a drunk all over the road as I was not use to how tight it was so may be just the other way around?

I may take it to work tomorrow as there should not be a lot of traffic on the road, not that there is at 2am. I will not be in a rush as I only have 1 load of LP and it is a day time delivery (after 8am).
Dave ----

Took the truck to work 30+ miles 1 way.
Went high way going @ 2am no traffic 65 - 75 MPH speed limit of 70 so most of the time was 65-72.
On the way home I took local streets and had time to use the GPS and the speedo is pretty close so that's good. RPM was between 2300 - 2700

What's not good and why the local streets on the way home is the steering.
It still darts left & right. It has new poly pivot & radius bushings, all tie rod are tight and the alignment was with in spec, they shop was surprised on that.

When I checked for play in the box the wheels were straight and I did not think it was that bad, maybe 1/2" or less of the wheel?
But when driving it seams like the play will go to more then that and at different  spots of the turning.
I cant remember if this is the box from this truck or the parts truck?
At this point I am thinking box and if I am going to swap I don't want to install the other used box I have.

I almost don't want to swap because it does not leak but I feel it is not safe not knowing what direction it may take off in so I will be looking into the red or blue top boxes.

The truck also pings a lot under normal throttle. I am thinking I need to get an adjustable vacuum can for the dist. I should pull the vacuum line and plug and see what that does before picking one up.
I have not put a light to it yet but it starts right up so thinking it has to be close to factory. I also don't have the EGR hooked up and hear this could be why the pinging?

Then we have the transmission not shifting the way it should. I think it needs a rebuild because if I double clutch it shifts better, cant down shift from 3rd to 2nd with out grinding no matter what I do, syncros are shot! Going to look into what options I have of rebuilding this non-OD T18 or look for a small block ZF5 and the needed parts to convert but that is down the road a bit.
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

What's not good and why the local streets on the way home is the steering.
It still darts left & right. It has new poly pivot & radius bushings, all tie rod are tight and the alignment was with in spec, they shop was surprised on that.

When I checked for play in the box the wheels were straight and I did not think it was that bad, maybe 1/2" or less of the wheel?
But when driving it seams like the play will go to more then that and at different  spots of the turning.

Dave,

There was discussion about steering on one of the local Ford truck FB pages the other day, and the guys were talking about steering wander and steering boxes, etc, and I had to laugh because one guy said that "You have to remember, the 1980-1996 steering gear is less like a steering box and more like a suggestion box"...haha!

Anyway...

I went through TWO new (reman) steering boxes from Napa, and it really is surprising how much play there was in them. Shocking really. And that was with new everything...all joints and bushings, and everything brand new between the pitman arm and tie-rod ends, rebuilt steering column, all new tires, fresh alignment, etc. All good...it still sloppy and loose steering.

You know what I did notice though?

Nice solid steering in the turns. I could be driving down a straight road, and steering like they do in the old movies...back and forth...lol. Get into a long sweeping turn, and the steering would be smooth and firm, and would hold the line perfectly. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but that told me that the box gears were worn in the center where you drive most of the time, but once turned you got to the nice tight teeth with much less wear on them. That was my perception at least. I always joked to myself and said I wish this damn truck steered as nicely on a straight road as it did in the turns. Anyway, whatever, it is what it is.

I finally gulped hard and spent the money on a RedHead steering gear. It was a huge improvement, and I do like it, but it too now has a little slop in it with some use. Not nearly as bad as before, but still there's a bit there.

I don't really have any good advice for ya...I know many others will strongly disagree with this, but I don't think there's a lot of harm in adjusting the box a little bit. If it doesn't help it doesn't help, but if it's sloppy anyway, it might not hurt.

Rembrant wrote

FuzzFace2 wrote

What's not good and why the local streets on the way home is the steering.
It still darts left & right. It has new poly pivot & radius bushings, all tie rod are tight and the alignment was with in spec, they shop was surprised on that.

When I checked for play in the box the wheels were straight and I did not think it was that bad, maybe 1/2" or less of the wheel?
But when driving it seams like the play will go to more then that and at different  spots of the turning.

Dave,

There was discussion about steering on one of the local Ford truck FB pages the other day, and the guys were talking about steering wander and steering boxes, etc, and I had to laugh because one guy said that "You have to remember, the 1980-1996 steering gear is less like a steering box and more like a suggestion box"...haha!

Anyway...

I went through TWO new (reman) steering boxes from Napa, and it really is surprising how much play there was in them. Shocking really. And that was with new everything...all joints and bushings, and everything brand new between the pitman arm and tie-rod ends, rebuilt steering column, all new tires, fresh alignment, etc. All good...it still sloppy and loose steering.

You know what I did notice though?

Nice solid steering in the turns. I could be driving down a straight road, and steering like they do in the old movies...back and forth...lol. Get into a long sweeping turn, and the steering would be smooth and firm, and would hold the line perfectly. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but that told me that the box gears were worn in the center where you drive most of the time, but once turned you got to the nice tight teeth with much less wear on them. That was my perception at least. I always joked to myself and said I wish this damn truck steered as nicely on a straight road as it did in the turns. Anyway, whatever, it is what it is.

I finally gulped hard and spent the money on a RedHead steering gear. It was a huge improvement, and I do like it, but it too now has a little slop in it with some use. Not nearly as bad as before, but still there's a bit there.

I don't really have any good advice for ya...I know many others will strongly disagree with this, but I don't think there's a lot of harm in adjusting the box a little bit. If it doesn't help it doesn't help, but if it's sloppy anyway, it might not hurt.

"steering gear is less like a steering box and more like a suggestion box"...haha!"
That is great LOL

Thanks for the reply.
I also find the steering a little more "sure" in tighter long turns like on back roads but on the high way still has play so it may be really bad?

With everything else done on the steering I cant think of anything else it could be.
I did check out both red & blue to see what the prices are so I can break it to the banker LOL
Blue look to be a about $30 cheaper, every little bit helps, so if I get the OK will be getting it.

I may give it a try to see if I can take up a little of the play, Gary also said to maybe back it off as the wheels do not come back to center and if someone already took it up it may be binding and not returning but still have the play?
Cant hurt to give it a try tomorrow and see.

Thanks again for the reply
Dave ----

Cory - WelderScott, who has a '78 F150, put a RedHead in and it has some slop.  Last I knew he was hassling with them to get it replaced.  I'll ask him on Sunday.

But, I agree with you that once off center the worn boxes do better.  And you can take a little bit of that out with the lash adjustment, but you are adjusting for a worn spot and then when you get off center it is now tight.  There's just no way but to replace the box.

Dave - I understand the sentiment.  Changing out the box is not easy nor fun, so I'd want to do it once and for all.  Given that, I'd go with a BlueTop.  The RedHead in Dad's truck is tight, so may have been done back when they were turning out better work.  But something has slipped there from what I've read and been told, like from Scott, and I can't recommend them.

On the pinging, I'd bet it is because you aren't adding the exhaust gas.  So the mix is crisp and the burn rate fast, as opposed to the mix diluted with exhaust gas, which burns much more slowly.  So they dial in a lot of vacuum advance because it is under light load that the EGR kicks in.  And your test of plugging the vacuum line to see if the pinging stops is the right thing to do.

But you may already have an adjustable can.  Go in there with a really small Allen wrench, typically 3/32", and see if it engages in a screw head.  Crane says to turn the screw counterclockwise 2 turns at a time until the pinging goes away.

As for the tranny, make sure the clutch isn't dragging.  If it is that can really make shifting difficult.

Gary Lewis wrote

Cory - WelderScott, who has a '78 F150, put a RedHead in and it has some slop.  Last I knew he was hassling with them to get it replaced.  I'll ask him on Sunday.

But, I agree with you that once off center the worn boxes do better.  And you can take a little bit of that out with the lash adjustment, but you are adjusting for a worn spot and then when you get off center it is now tight.  There's just no way but to replace the box.

Dave - I understand the sentiment.  Changing out the box is not easy nor fun, so I'd want to do it once and for all.  Given that, I'd go with a BlueTop.  The RedHead in Dad's truck is tight, so may have been done back when they were turning out better work.  But something has slipped there from what I've read and been told, like from Scott, and I can't recommend them.

On the pinging, I'd bet it is because you aren't adding the exhaust gas.  So the mix is crisp and the burn rate fast, as opposed to the mix diluted with exhaust gas, which burns much more slowly.  So they dial in a lot of vacuum advance because it is under light load that the EGR kicks in.  And your test of plugging the vacuum line to see if the pinging stops is the right thing to do.

But you may already have an adjustable can.  Go in there with a really small Allen wrench, typically 3/32", and see if it engages in a screw head.  Crane says to turn the screw counterclockwise 2 turns at a time until the pinging goes away.

As for the tranny, make sure the clutch isn't dragging.  If it is that can really make shifting difficult.

Thanks for the reply.
2 that say the red top has got issues down the road and not a long road (Cory) at that so blue it will be.

I meant to pull the vacuum line for the drive home to test and forgot, will have to do that before I use the truck tomorrow.
I will also see if the Allen wrench will fit. Hope I get lucky as I was not looking forward to finding one for a Ford 300 six motor, everything is for v8's.

On the clutch I don't think it is dragging but it is grabbing close off the floor and I don't remember adjusting it there. Will have to go over the clutch linkage and adjust the clutch to see if that helps.
Other than being a pain to shift and the grinding that comes up the stick to your hand (the pain part) I can live with it for now.

Thanks
Dave ----

Dave - I think the Allen wrench you want to try is 1/8" not 3/32".  However, I'm not sure that is accurate information because it comes from guys who are known to say things that aren't very accurate.  It is from this thread on FTE.  

Seriously, I did a search for "crane adjustable vacuum advance ford 300 six" and the very first result was a thread on FTE.  And when I started reading the text of the first post, before I even clicked on the search results, I thought "That sounds familiar."  Indeed it was/is.