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1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

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Chad9

1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Bought this 1983 F350 w/460 V8 late last fall for weekend projects. Truck is bone stock other than the carb. Started great, ran fine during occasional winter use. I have noticed now that the weather is warming up that it does not like to start quite as nice when restarting after use (like restarting after coming back out of a store). When trying to restart in this manner, the engine turns, but will not fire up unless I floor the gas pedal (which i do not have to do on a cold start). It has not yet totally refused to start but it is also not that hot yet. After it does start, the idle is erractic and lower than normal until driven for a few minutes. The prior owner said the only issue he ran into with the truck was once on a hot day when towing the truck just shut down while running, acting like a vapor lock situation. Restarted fine once cooled down. This has not happened to me yet. I want to resolve this issue so I can confidently drive this beasty this summer.

What have I done to the truck so far:

Valve covers, air filter, pcv valve, spark plugs, fuel filter, all belts, radiator cap, 180 deg thermostat, upper radiator hose,

My plan:

I have fuel line insulation on the way. Noted that the fuel lines did feel very hot the other day after a half hour run. If this does not resolve, I will check the fuel pressure coming from the in tank electric pump for the 4.3 psi i saw somewhere here that the pressure is supposed to be. I will advise if these things work or if I need more ideas from the group here.

Feel free to ask for any clarifications, I am sure I left some important details out.

I also need to fix the oil filter adapter which sprung a leak from the mounting bolt this weekend. These trucks keep us busy, don't they?

Thanks!

Matt
1983 Ford F350 2wd SRW, 460/C6, Holley 600CFM

1987 Dodge Omni 2.2, Weber 32/36

1986F150Six

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

Chad9 wrote

These trucks keep us busy, don't they?

Thanks!

Gary Lewis likens this to "peeling the layers of an onion"!

delco1946

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

In reply to this post by Chad9

I’ve been having the same issue since last week after getting my carb rebuilt. Folks on here were suggesting it’s possibly a choke issue since it’s acting like it’s flooded. Once I’m done moving loads of dirt I’m taking it back to the shop to get it looked at and can post here what I find out.

Christopher in Portland Or. 1981 F250 Ranger XLT 4x4 trailer special 351M, and auto C6

1986F150Six

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

For any forum member who might not be used to carburetors, it is not uncommon to have to make seasonal adjustments to the choke.

Gary Lewis

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

In reply to this post by Chad9

Chad - It does sound like the choke may be set too rich, and coming on too soon and/or far while the engine is too warm. That’s what David was suggesting re the seasonal adjustments.

However that doesn’t account for it stalling when being driven. That does seem more like vapor locking. Take a look at the Hot Fuel Handling tab here: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/460-fuel-systems.html. Your ‘83 may not have that. In fact, I’m not sure yours will have the in-tank pump as the early ones frequently didn’t.

If your insulation doesn’t solve that problem you’ll need to determine if it really is a fuel problem or ignition as the ignition systems can fail when hot. But if it is fuel and if you don’t have the Hot Fuel setup then you might consider creating your own - a return style regulator.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Chad9

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

I think I do have the hot start, i have the "T" in the metal fuel line close to where the line goes into the carb and I have the electric fuel pump. Probably because the truck was AC equipped? I will look into adjusting the choke if the insulation doesn't work, but this process will be a new one for me. Something I could use to learn though.

Matt
1983 Ford F350 2wd SRW, 460/C6, Holley 600CFM

1987 Dodge Omni 2.2, Weber 32/36

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

Ford had three of those vapor separators.

They were coded with a blue, red or white dot.
Different orifice sizes.
One had a 0.090" hole and was meant as retrofit for vehicles with fuel problems.
This kept cool gasoline circulating from the tank.

The other two were 0.045" & 0.065"

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

NZCOBRA

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Also another good thing to do is add a 1/2" phenolic spacer under the carb , fuel could be boiling in there , make sure your fuel pressure is correct , fuel inlet control valves, aren't leaking causing a high float level , and set the float level . Cheers

1986 F150 Lariat Supercab 302 efi , soon to have a 385 ci w , forged crank,king bearings , crower billet rods, Auto tech forged pistons world products Snr heads , Comp retro fit 35-421-8 HR, steel roller lifters , Milodon single idle gear drive , Mallory dual sync dissy ,Motec ECU , Profesional products intake , 75 mm TB , 40lb EV1 , Doug thorly Tri-y long tubes , Block 1974 with 1990 serpentine front drive and new Motorcraft A/C pump , will put 3G alternator on it , ford racing diff cover and have a new track-loc , to fit . I have converted it to a 5 speed Tremec TR4250 as the AOD died .

Chad9

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Ran again this weekend after doing some fuel line insulating. Did fine on the Menard's run. Started decent when I came out of the store. To be fair it was relatively cool (50F) so it will be better tested once it warms up. Truck still stumbles off the line a bit, frustrating because it is very intermittent. I never know which stop sign it will sputter pulling away from. Still need to check the fuel pressure from the electric pump and then on to the choke. I did note after a drive that the choke plate is wide open at rest, which i would believe as it should be...

Matt
1983 Ford F350 2wd SRW, 460/C6, Holley 600CFM

1987 Dodge Omni 2.2, Weber 32/36

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

Yup, the choke should be open if the engine is warmed up.

We have carburetors... which, honestly, is like a toilet.
The pump just fills the tank (float bowl) and the engine draws from the bottom of that reservoir.

A fuel pump starvation problem is when it starts breaking up while running wfo for some time.
The pump can't keep up and the bowl is eventually drained.

I've never heard of an intermittent accelerator pump issue, but it could be the check ball is hanging up on some crud.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

In reply to this post by Chad9

Have you confirmed what the float level is in the carb?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

'Pulling away from a stop" generally means the bowls have been filling while idling.

If the float level is high enough to run down the road while accelerating it's high enough for the accelerator pump to operate.

Unless you're suggesting it's set too high and the engine is overwhelmed by fuel.... but is somehow still able to idle normally.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

That's what I was thinking - too high.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

delco1946

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

It not likely that you're having the same issue as me, but after picking up my truck AGAIN to fix my carb/starting/running issues I got gas on the way home. I had to crank it for 5-10 seconds and gas it (this is why I returned it to the shop

). This issue was supposedly fixed.

Anyway, this reminded me of the time I ran outa gas and had no luck cranking it to start after adding some fuel last summer. Only after I unscrewed my gas cap did it start.

A light went off on the way home after leaving behind a pig-pen cloud of cusses at the gas station. Rather than flooding, perhaps I truly was having too little gas get to the carb. I tested this when I got home. Turned off truck, unscrewed gas cap to alleviate any back-pressure that might be counteracting the mechanical fuel pump. Turned key. Truck started instantly.

Granted I need to play with this more, and it suggests I have another issue in my future, but you may have something similar, or even have multiple issues compounding. Might be good to confirm that you don't have a similar issue. Just a thought.....

Christopher in Portland Or. 1981 F250 Ranger XLT 4x4 trailer special 351M, and auto C6

Gary Lewis

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

Christopher - If the vent line to your tank is plugged you'll pull a vacuum on the tank and eventually the engine will die. Have you had such problems?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

Cracking the cap you would hear a hiss and often the tank expanding back to shape.
A new gas cap is cheap (and also on U-techcenter)

I just bought a rollover vent from there too.
Sometimes bugs will build a nest in the vent line.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Chad9

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Found a link online describing how to check the float level on a Holley 4bbl so will be trying that and also checking fuel pressure this weekend when I get time.

Matt
1983 Ford F350 2wd SRW, 460/C6, Holley 600CFM

1987 Dodge Omni 2.2, Weber 32/36

ArdWrknTrk

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

4180's are not like a normal 4160.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Administrator

Chad - Why not use Ford's instructions on that carb? They are on the site at Documentation/Fuel Systems/Carbs Chokes & EFI/Holley 4180C. Then click on the Ford Service Manuals tab and take your pic.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

delco1946

Re: 1983 F350 460 Cranky when hot starting

Gary - now that you mention it, it has died 2-4 times since driving it in the last 2 weeks. It never used to do this but it also used to idle much higher. After all my carb work the mechanic did adjust the idle so its much lower which is when I started having this issue. It even stalled 10 seconds after starting it yesterday when I picked it up from the shop/mechanic lol. He just walked away - they must be tired of dealing with my truck haha.

At least one of these times included dying while going from/into reverse, the engine just sorta slowly drops out and the next thing I know i'm just coasting to a stop.

Christopher in Portland Or. 1981 F250 Ranger XLT 4x4 trailer special 351M, and auto C6