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1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

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kramttocs

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Ah, didn't think to check the selector position. I'll do that tomorrow afternoon.
I've seen mention of the pump anchor mod but I must not be putting in the right search terms into google. I did find a thread on fsb that included this photo: https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/304463
Do you happen to have any details or a link on the mod?

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Ford F834

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

That pic is basically it... a piece of rod welded to the arm tip. There is a decent write-up here, but the picture links are broken.

https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/23-technical-write-ups/66992-1356-tcase-refresh-n-swap-not-56k-easy.html#/topics/66992

Another bronco site had three of the pics reposted:

And here are a couple Internet pics showing the failure that you are trying to prevent:

I think you can get the general idea of what needs to happen.... if that anchor chews through the notch and spins out you loose internal oil pressure and it can hang up and mangle things in seconds. I don’t know how common that actually is, but since you have it out of the truck already it’s something to think about, especially if you have access to a welder.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

I know this is for a 1356, but does it also apply to a 1345?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Ford F834

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Gary Lewis wrote

I know this is for a 1356, but does it also apply to a 1345?

Yes it does. I don’t know if there are others, but the 1345 and 1356 both have this Achilles heel 😔

Gary Lewis

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Ok, thanks. I wonder about sending Big Blue's out to be gone through while I'm EFI'ing him. Brandon/Bruno2 and I know a guy that does good work fairly inexpensively, and while I'm sure I could do it there's the time factor. So I might have him go through it to at least weld that rod on.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

I would do that... at least to modify the arm and put new seals in it if everything else seems okay. It’s just not that hard to do. The only reason I didn’t was I was trying to get mine on the road for the Death Valley trip. I hear you loud and clear on the time factor... that has become my worst project enemy 😩

Rembrant

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

I wonder about sending Big Blue's out to be gone through...

Just out of curiosity, where does one send a t-case for service or overhaul? Is there a shop that specializes in these?

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Cory - Around here there are several 4wd shops that will do it.

But James, Brandon/Bruno2's neighbor, used to work in a shop that rebuilds drivelines for all sorts of vehicles, right up to and including the tractors for 18-wheelers. He knows his way around transfer cases, driveshafts, transmissions, differentials, etc. So I've had him do several such things for me, and that's probably where I'll take BB's 1345.

Jonathan - Wait until you get to my age. Now I'm realizing that there needs to be a sticker on the windshield that says "Objects in the future are closer than they appear."

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Banned User

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Ford F834 wrote

...if you have access to a welder.

Just to be totally clear: NEVER try to weld the case - it's Magnesium alloy. But I don't even weld the arm - I just use a piece of heavy plastic (like a scrap of a wheelwell liner, dealer license plate, or antifreeze jug) to protect the case from the arm.

Ford F834

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Steve, I know some plastics can be incredibly tough but if the steel anchor arm can wear through the magnesium case I don’t see a thin layer of plastic being able to stop it. And how would it stay in place? The arm comes out with two bolts. Is there any thing wrong per se with welding on a rod to distribute the force?

Steve83

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Banned User

Ford F834 wrote

...if the steel anchor arm can wear through the magnesium case I don’t see a thin layer of plastic being able to stop it.

The interaction between the steel & plastic is different from that between the steel & Magnesium. If the wiper arm is allowed to rub on the windshield, it will cut a groove into the glass; but a thin strip of soft rubber between them prevents that. A dentist's drill doesn't do much when touched lightly to skin, but using the same force, it can bore through the hardest substance in the body.

Ford F834 wrote

And how would it stay in place?

By being trapped there. How would it come out?

Ford F834 wrote

Is there any thing wrong per se with welding on a rod to distribute the force?

No. But it only slows the process by increasing the contact area - it doesn't stop it. And it requires welding, and not everyone can do that. Anyone who can split a transfer case can cut a piece of plastic.

kramttocs

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Looks like the 1345 may have went all into the River Styx :) Split mine today and it doesn't look at all like those photos at least in regards to the triangular piece. Unless I am completely missing something the case doesn't have the notch at all. I also can't see into the pump like it appears one can with the 1356. I know its case is aluminum vs the magnesium mix so maybe this is another difference. I was looking at a video online after I didn't see the notch and noticed that guy with the 1356 had to remove a clip before the back half came off. Mine just slipped right off. Will try to add some photos if I can get my phone to work.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Interesting! When you say "pictures" that it doesn't look like, are you including those from the factory or BW manual? Driveline/Transfer Cases and the BW1345 tab.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Wasn't very clear, was I? :) I was meaning the ones showing the case mod. I didn't think to look at your diagram but just did and I didn't see the triangular piece there either so further confirmation the 1345 doesn't have to worry about that. Splitting the one with the gvod back half as we speak. While welding that piece on isn't a huge deal, it is nice knowing it isn't needed.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Interesting. Let us know what all you find.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

In reply to this post by kramttocs

Hmmm... it seems like not all online information is in agreement here... and I am starting to wonder if this wasn’t a change made during the run of the 1345?

Here is an online picture I saved some time back. I’m not sure where it came from, but they were selling the pump kit shown in the upper left:

Now here is the exploded diagram from the Borg Warner service manual. I see no such part. The pump is #33 on the diagram:

Now here is the exploded diagram from the Ford MPC. It shows a part with the generic designation of 7E215... oil pump retainer. Looks like about the right thing, but not exactly a triangle anchor:

When you go to look up the part, the applications tab shows that 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6F, and 6Q are all BW1345. The parts list only covers 6A through 6M, but all the BW1345’s use the same 7E215 oil pump retainer:

So, what does a E6TZ-7E215-A look like? ...Not a big triangle:

Based on this and what kramttocs is seeing, it sounds like it does not have the triangle anchor, unless it was added in 1989 and is “6Q” not covered in the parts list? I’m still puzzled as to why the retainer above has a 6E (1986) part number when it started production in 1980, but the fact that the part number covers all applications back to 1980 means it can’t be all that different.

Kramttocs, I am sorry I led you down a wrong rabbit hole of splitting a case that didn’t need to be opened. I meant well...

kramttocs

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

Hey, no apologies needed whatsoever! I didn't know the history of the gvod tcase so it needed to be opened anyways and never having personally seen inside one before, it was a good learning experience. Truck is completely (and I mean completely) dismantled right now anyways so not like this caused any inconvenience at all.

Appreciate all the diagrams and research you've done.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Steve83

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Banned User

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Ford F834 wrote

I’m still puzzled as to why the retainer above has a 6E (1986) part number when it started production in 1980, but the fact that the part number covers all applications back to 1980 means it can’t be all that different.

These are just guesses & speculation, but it might be that a different retainer (plastic, Aluminum, different shape) was used in the early cases, and was revised to the one you found, which might be recommended to replace the older ones. It's also conceivable that the early cases didn't have a pump retainer (stay arm) at all; they might have relied on the pickup tube between the pump & filter to keep it from spinning. 7E215 is a base PN for all t-case pump retainers of that type. There could be 100 variations with different prefixes & suffixes. For example: both of these diagrams indicate 3E715 & 3E723 for the ignition actuators, but they ARE "all that different":

The early ones are pot-metal; the later ones are plastic; entirely different shapes; and not even close to being interchangeable with the older ones.

Ford F834

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Thanks Steve. I was thinking it must be something like that re the ‘86 part number.

For Gary or anyone else following the 1356 I did read that spun retainers seem to go hand in hand with a seized pump. It’s open to speculation whether the seized pumps cause the spin out or the other way around, but if the case is opened to modify the arm it might be worth doing the pump too... if it is old or unknown condition. The other note of caution is to take it easy on the RTV used to seal the case halves. Excess can clog the pick up filter for the pump.

kramttocs

Re: 1981 straight six manual 4x4 project

Administrator

I must have read that same thread a few times this weekend

"The other note of caution is to take it easy on the RTV used to seal the case halves. Excess can clog the pick up filter for the pump. "

Funny - my wife was standing there as I was rtv'ing the case and I was explaining to her how much I drive myself crazy over stuff like that. Too much, too little, clog the pump, have a leak. Been second guessing myself since - even debated getting the wall camera out to look inside at the seams :D

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

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