Would You Rather: SAS or lift, discuss amongst yourselves

I'm lining up another project and I'm giving serious consideration to doing either a 4 inch lift or a SAS. I'm curious about your opinions.

For the purposes of this discussion, you must pick either a SAS or an aftermarket lift system, and state your reason for why you would prefer that. I know that there are several of you out there who would quickly respond "neither", and that is always a good choice, too, but for the purposes of this discussion, please pick one or the other (my question is not an indictment of the stock suspension).

Looking forward to hearing all of your viewpoints.

I can't vote 'cause I don't know what you are going to do with the truck.  Nor even what the truck is.

And those are important questions.  If it is an F250 4x4 with TTB's & leaf springs I'll vote for SAS (& RSK with Superduty springs) since it'll improve the ride awa give a better turning radius, both of which are helpful offroad.

But if it is an F150 or Bronco 4x4 with TTB's & coil springs I might vote for a lift as you already have good articulation and ride.

Fair question, Gary, but I'm more interested with what each of you would do to your own truck and why (e.g. one person might prefer the lift for tamer on road ride because they use their truck as a daily driver, while another person might prefer the SAS because they value the 8 bolt hubs for towing). I'll admit the question is a bit skewed because it doesn't really apply the same to the f250, right (at least not in the same way)?

Basically everyone on this site knows more about lifts, axles, and every other part related to motoring than I do, so I'm asking a very open ended question in the hopes that I'll learn something from you and fill in the gaps on some of the things that I don't know I don't know. Gary, your answer is exactly along the lines of what I was looking for when I asked the question.

F150's and Broncos with TTB are getting hard to align with aftermarket lift kits, as those kits aren't always well matched (spring height versus the amount of lift from the drop brackets). And it's getting hard to find shops knowledgeable enough to align TTB trucks and get them in spec for minimal tire wear. For that reason alone, I'd prefer an SAS.  

For 3/4 ton+ trucks, I have the same reasons for doing the SAS as Gary.

For my little 1/4 ton Ranger, I would eventually like to SAS it as well, because the lift kits for those trucks severely limit ground clearance due to the IFS design. That and 35" tires are about the limit for stock components. An SAS swap (D44+) would allow for slightly larger tires (37's), without worry of over-taxing the stock suspension components.  

Right now Super Duty axles are plentiful, and if you're willing to swap front and rear to have matching wheel lug patterns, you can get yourself into a set of axles for under $1k. The Kingpin and 92-97 Ball Joint Dana 60 axles are well over $1200 for clean units at this point, and that's just for the front. It's a good time to solid axle swap and companies like Sky Offroad are making it even easier, with almost bolt-on parts.

I have two trucks, a 150 and a 250, both 4x4's.  In my opinion the 4x4 F250 suspension is the worst of all worlds.  But the 4x4 F150 suspension is the best of them.  So I'd vote SAS for the F250 and lift for an F150.

It depends on what you want to do with truck and what it is. I agree with Gary on the f150 vs f250, coils vs leaf ttb opinion.

I daily a lifted f150 and it rides like an old truck but rides good for an old truck. Like Shaun said they are a pain to align once you lift it but not impossible. It is hard to find someone that knows what they’re doing in regards to the alignment in these trucks. One shop wanted to charge me $300 to get it within spec because the camber was so off and required changing the bushings. That was very high to me. Your mileage may vary. At that price I’ll do it myself.

Just figure in having to buy different camber bushings, drop pitman arm, and all the other rubber bushings to make sure it’s all sound. Also buy a steering stabilizer, it’s worth it with the bigger tires.

If you were gonna SAS just for the sake of it to get rid of “that junk ttb” I would say not worth it. Go through the ttb front end and get the alignment correct and they are pretty nice and smooth. Before I lifted mine it had a very good alignment and did not wear tires funny. It did good with light off-roading and the like. No issues. Great for a daily.

If you have plans to rock crawl and get every single bit of articulation then go ahead and SAS. Find some 3/4 ton axles and call it a day. Less headache to deal with in that setting from what I hear when you add lockers, 37 inch tires, massive lift, etc

My vote is for the lift, especially on an f150 and say 33-35” tires. Better ride and if you have problems getting it aligned you’ve got a lot of people here that can help. The ttb is more than capable of reasonable off-roading (persistent and dumb can break anything, even a solid axle). Where I live (Arkansas, Ouachita Mountains) I encounter rocky trails going up and down mountains, mud, creeks...the ttb has never felt inadequate and when I pull back onto pavement it rides real nice

My own truck?
I'd definitely do a SAS/RSK for all the reasons Gary mentioned.
Ride, turn radius, ability to keep it aligned, etc.

But I don't need or even want a taller truck.
Just swapping to a solid axle would give me a couple of inches.
Lower is better for me. When you're stacking 80# bags of concrete in the bed, four layers high is easily another foot you have to lift them and I don't want to do clean and jerk them any more just to get them over the tailgate and on top of the rest.
More height would also make that much harder to use my rack.
It's over 7' now.

Good point, Jim.  As you know, I didn't do the SAS/RSK/SD springs swap to get height.  But I did get height - something like 4 1/2".  And that leveled the truck very nicely.

I like the idea of raising my Bronco purely for looks but not at all for off-road ability. I'm not pretending that it's otherwise, but I really like wrenching on my truck and look forward to the learning about things in general from fixing/restoring/modifying, so how it gets done is probably the most important aspect. I feel comfortable that, even with my limited experience, I could complete a lift installation and correct/debug. I'm not so sure about a SAS, though. Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want, and I'm afraid a SAS would give me a lot of experience. I don't know how to weld or use an acetylene torch or anything like that so a SAS seems like a recipe for disappointment. But if I could actually complete it, it would be significantly more rewarding from the learning perspective, and I'd have one of the most robust axles in the world under me.

So, to your point Gary, you got a nice lift out of the swap (if you consider a lift nice which not everyone does). A story that I have heard A LOT is some variation on the story, "with all of the time and money I spent on getting my lift right, I wish I had just spent a little more and done the SAS." Am I the only one who hears this constant refrain from people who really spend time on their truck? In the interest of learning from those that came before me, it gives me pause.

How much lift do you really think you want?
Are you including shocks, brake lines and driveshafts on top of the springs, drop pivots, tires and alignment?

I don't think I had to do any welding due to the SAS or RSK.  LOTS of drilling rivets out and drilling a few new holes in the frame.  But really nothing that was all that difficult.

By far the biggest issues I had were due to the bent frame and the fact that I got serial #1 of the SD RSK kits from Sky.  After that it was just a lot of work.

I've not done a lift, so I can't compare.

A Bronco or 150 wouldn't have the front frame rails boxed, would it?

Good point, Jim.  I guess I was assuming that Sky has a kit for that, but I don't know.  And it may take welding.

Oh, it definitely takes welding.

I was considering a 4 inch lift, shocks, brake lines, springs, drop pivots, and steering stabilizer but no new driveshaft (since it's only 4 inches). I feel confident in my ability to install that as long as I'm not trying to do something "unique" or "creative".

The frame rails are not boxed on my Bronco. Obviously not an insignificant amount of welding involved to box those as part of the SAS. I couldn't even attempt to do that (although I'd love to observe and learn). I know there is some cutting involved that I might be able to pull off with a little help from someone. So that seems like a pretty steep mountain to climb for me and I don't want to end up dead on the side of Everest.

And then beyond the complexity of the SAS install itself, I'm still wondering whether it's just a fool's errand to begin with. Is it really a worthwhile pursuit?

Sorry to bother you with my dilemma. Just talking it out and taking it in. Mine are definitely first-world problems!

Not a bother!

Coil spring radius beams are a world different than the 250 with reverse arched springs that have maybe an 1" to the bump stops.
Plus turning radius is limited by the tire rubbing the spring, and it is very hard to keep it aligned because the springs are fighting the pivots constantly.

What does a Bronco need?
Springs, drop pivots and a longer pitman arm?

What size tires do you have Chad?

I've got an 84 Bronco with the completely stock 4x4 suspension setup. It's riding on 31" via 15x8.

I've never done it but my understanding is that mine is a pretty straightforward lift. New pitman arms and potentially new radius arms, drop pivots, steering stabilizer, coils, shocks, new rear springs (not doing blocks), brake lines, bumps stops, etc. Obviously I'm excluding the new mounting parts but you get the idea. At 4" it is not a complex system as far as I know.

At 4" you could probably do lift shackles instead of springs, if you like your spring rate...

Obviously lift springs in the rear are probably best, but I don't know if a FSB pitches as much as an early Bronco.

Greetings,
 I have an 85 Bronco that I did a straight axle swap on about 5 years ago.
 I used the long arm kit from James Duff. I live in Michigan and have a Western snowplow on my truck. The TTB did weird stuff when I carried the blade in the up position,the tops of tires would tip in. Going down the road the blade is hanging a few hundred pounds out front running on the inside edge of the tires was squirrelly.
 My swap used a high pinion dana44 from a 79 F150. My original front driveshaft was reused.
The Duff kit does require a few inches of lift. Did have to cut the bottom off the crossmember. Zero regrets.
 A side note about welding to these frames, Im pretty sure that I was told that welding these frames causes cracking. All my Duff parts were bolt ons.
For my application, love it! I am doing it to the one that I am building now.
Curt

This conversation is very interesting. I didnt realize the RSK kit isnt a weld on kit. That makes it pretty appealing