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Wondering about exhaust systems

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Pebcak

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

I second Gary's motion.

That's what I did. Went to a local rep and had them make a custom dual setup with Magnaflow's. Here it cost me about $450 all together. Sounds great though.

Best example I can give is a little quieter than a Dodge exhaust rumble.

1986 F150 XLT Lariat, 4X2, 351W, 1406 Edelbrock Carb - Currently going through an engine rebuild through a "Father/Son Project"

Gary Lewis

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

Don - Will I get to hear it in a month?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

LARIAT 85

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

In reply to this post by Steve83

Most people who have an older carbureted engine and installs headers and/or dual exhaust usually don't leave the engine stock. THAT is usually the problem, and that is probably why you see so many in the junkyards.

Many older vehicles I have seen with headers and dual exhaust - even at car shows - have modified and poorly thought out engines bolted to them. To begin with, it is often necessary to re-tune the carburetor when headers and/or dual exhaust is added. If you don't so that, there is a good chance the engine will be too lean as a result and it will see the junkyard quicker.

The stock thermostatic air cleaner often goes missing because it is "smog junk" and so the engine never has the correct fuel mixture. Chokes are removed because they were "not needed." The carburetor is typically oversized in the name of "more horsepower" and not tuned properly, often being way too rich. Single plane exhaust manifold on a street engine because that is what race cars use. Lumpy, racing style camshafts are installed because they "sound cool," which results in low engine vacuum and a very confused, out-of-balance carburetor that has been opened up too far in order to sustain an idle. Colorful, racing-style spark plug wires because they look "cooler," etc.

You know what I am talking about.

Lucille: 1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors: Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain: AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.

85lebaront2

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

Steve, please explain to someone who worked in a metallurgical laboratory what alloy steel cylinder heads are made from? All of them I have seen were cast iron, most gray iron (brittle) some might be nodular iron like some Ford 9" hogsheads, and some might be malleable iron. Maybe some Flatheads were steel.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Steve83

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Banned User

85lebaront2 wrote

...what alloy steel cylinder heads are made from?

If you say they're cast Iron, then you must agree that bolting cast Iron manifolds to them won't cause any bolt or ear problems, right?

I have no idea what alloy Ford specified for blocks & heads, but I bet it was below 3.5% Carbon, which makes it steel in my mind. Can you get one tested & tell us for sure?

LARIAT 85 wrote

You know what I am talking about.

Yep - those modifications are as much symptoms as causes. But the result is the same: junkyard, in a hurry.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

In reply to this post by LARIAT 85

LARIAT 85 wrote

Most people who have an older carbureted engine and installs headers and/or dual exhaust usually don't leave the engine stock. THAT is usually the problem.
Many older vehicles I have seen with headers and dual exhaust - even at car shows - have modified and poorly thought out engines bolted to them.

Single plane exhaust manifold on a street engine because that is what race cars use.

Rick,
Maybe it's a single plane intake?

While I agree, most people don't have the knowledge (or restraint) to build a balanced performance engine.
They are also the useful idiots that keep most of these companies in business.

In some small way, we should be thankful for them.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

High nickel and/or chrome blocks were used for quite a few engines.
Not just performance engines, but Marine and industrial applications where corrosion and wear protection were important.

As for the carbon content of heads, I'm not so sure.
We see plenty of nodular and other gray and white irons, that are way beyond eutetic, but not considered 'steel'

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

In reply to this post by Steve83

Not any more, I am retired, the metallurgist I worked with for years is retired, the man who ran the spectographic analyzer retired and is now deceased from Alzheimers complications, even the head Chemist has retired. When I was still working in the lab is was at a major defense contractor and we did metals, paints, plastics, trace elements, just about anything you needed. One of our outside customers through our marketing division was Ford Motor Company, I have a pair of partially finished 460 EFI valve covers that we tested the for a gasket leak issue, this resulted in the deep groove HD valve cover design.

There are some high chrome, nickel, moly cast iron alloys that have very good wear resistance but can be a royal bitch to bore (Mercedes-Benz blocks) Chrysler used to use a hard iron block, which is why many of the old 318s will have loads of miles on them and still run well.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

While I agree, most people don't have the knowledge (or restraint) to build a balanced performance engine.
They are also the useful idiots that keep most of these companies in business.

In some small way, we should be thankful for them.

Very true. I've come to the conclusion that it is wise to pay someone that knows the correct bits to put together for a given application. Someone like Tim or Scotty that lives and breathes a specific engine is invaluable.

I told Scotty what I want to use the engine for, that I have the F3 heads, will be running EEC-V and want to burn regular pump gas to tow and offroad with, but still get "good" MPG - for a 460. And with that he knew what pistons, deck height, cam, etc.

And, he strongly recommended headers.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Banned User

Gary Lewis wrote

I've come to the conclusion that it is wise to pay someone that knows the correct bits to put together for a given application.

I agree totally, but the "someone" I trust is Ford.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

While I agree with you Gary, I was thinking mostly about the other side of the coin.

That all these "performance parts" companies would have disappeared if it weren't for knuckleheads who buy cams, headers, intakes,. .... and YES, bling for their vehicles.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

ArdWrknTrk wrote

That all these "performance parts" companies would have disappeared if it weren't for knuckleheads who buy cams, headers, intakes,. ....

I'm one of those Knuckleheads!!

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

My previous post said those who have no idea or restraint.

If you've bought a magnetic fuel stabilizer or a pinwheel intake turbulator, then YES, you too are a knucklehead.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Whisler

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

In reply to this post by LARIAT 85

"To begin with, it is often necessary to re-tune the carburetor when headers and/or dual exhaust is added. If you don't so that, there is a good chance the engine will be too lean as a result and it will see the junkyard quicker."

I have to agree with Lariat85. When I transplanted my 351W we switched to an Edelbrock Performer intake (can use either 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb. based on the base plate used) and JBA shorty headers with dual exhaust with H pipe. I was still using the 2150 carb. (53 jets) I had been using previously but ran into problems under uphill acceleration. I had to re-jet to 57 jets to make the problem mostly go away. Probably should have gone to 59 jets but picked up an Edelbrock AVS instead. Installation is almost complete and that should solve the problem.

God Bless
Whisler

Frankenstein: 1989 F250 4X4, C-6, Hurst Pro-Matic 2 shifter, carbed '84 351W, Edelbrock manifold, Edlbrock AVS, DS2 ignition, 3G alternator, JBA shorty headers, no cats, dual exhaust with H pipe.

Gary Lewis

Re: Wondering about exhaust systems

Administrator

Yes, with carbs that's true. But, with an EEC-V system, it'll figure it out itself.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile