Website Revision - Potential New Home Page

Gary, I agree that most wouldn’t “enter” through a homepage if they find Garagemahal via google or one of your friendly Facebook tips. But if they like what they see they might navigate there as a starting point to see what else is available. It probably isn’t very practical or beneficial for recruitment, but would it hurt anything? I’m not crazy about pop ups. Even legitimate ones. They smack of spam, or commercialism at the very least. Also, the first time I visit a site I am looking for something. I would likely dismiss any pop ups. I don’t want to be distracted or re-directed to sign up etc., before I even know if the website can help me, or has what I’m looking for. Of course I have not seen an example of what you are proposing, but in general I don’t like any pop up that I didn’t launch myself by clicking a link. One tweak that could help draw attention to the documentation side would be to label the hamburger stack “documentation site menu” or something to that effect. I don’t know if you are able to populate the space next to the hamburger stack, but it is currently blank. You could add “return to Forum” on the top link since I believe that is the only forum related link in the menu? If you want info for new members, maybe make a “new members start here” link above the topics? I agree that too many pinned folders and threads above the active topics isn’t good, but I think a new member orientation/tutorial area could be an important link.

Jonathan - There's a whole lot in your post, so I'm going to attempt to dissect it and respond to each point. To do so I'll put your points in blue and mine in green.

I agree that most wouldn’t “enter” through a homepage if they find Garagemahal via google or one of your friendly Facebook tips. But if they like what they see they might navigate there as a starting point to see what else is available. It probably isn’t very practical or beneficial for recruitment, but would it hurt anything? I'm not against doing it, but it could hurt things. The forum is currently at URL garysgaragemahal.com, which is the home page. But if we create a new home page it will get that URL. So anyone that has bookmarked that URL is not going to where they expect to go. On the other hand, there would be an easily-seen link directly to the forum on the home page in your scenario, so maybe it isn't a problem?

I’m not crazy about pop ups. Even legitimate ones. They smack of spam, or commercialism at the very least. Also, the first time I visit a site I am looking for something. I would likely dismiss any pop ups. I don’t want to be distracted or re-directed to sign up etc., before I even know if the website can help me, or has what I’m looking for. Of course I have not seen an example of what you are proposing, but in general I don’t like any pop up that I didn’t launch myself by clicking a link. I know what you are saying about popups. And you are probably right. But my thought was that for the first visit they'd get a popup that pointed them to the menu and, therefore, the documentation. However, your next point may cover that....

One tweak that could help draw attention to the documentation side would be to label the hamburger stack “documentation site menu” or something to that effect. I don’t know if you are able to populate the space next to the hamburger stack, but it is currently blank. You could add “return to Forum” on the top link since I believe that is the only forum related link in the menu? I don't know if it can be done, but something that points to the menu might really help. Except it won't help much on the forum since, as Steve pointed out, it auto-advances to the forum, meaning it skips over the top and people don't see the menu. And I'm not sure what to do 'bout that.

If you want info for new members, maybe make a “new members start here” link above the topics? I agree that too many pinned folders and threads above the active topics isn’t good, but I think a new member orientation/tutorial area could be an important link. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. We have a New Members Start Here folder, but you must mean something else. Where would the link go? And it would take them to a tutorial?

Gary, see what control you have over the hamburger stack banner. What would be nice is if you could divide it into two labeled buttons, documentation menu and forum main. That would essentially duplicate the function of the homepage I proposed in the form of a banner that is always present regardless of which page you are on... but I may be throwing pennies in a wishing well here. I have no idea what you can or can’t do with that space. I had forgotten that the new member folder already had that name. I guess I was thinking more of a page link that explained the basics of how to sign up, navigate, link to the member’s map, how to orient pictures and the usual things new people stumble on. The existing folder covers most of that though, and puts new members right where they should make their first post which is good. I also like Jim’s pinned post. I had not seen that before.

Gary Lewis wrote

The forum is currently at URL garysgaragemahal.com, which is the home page.  But if we create a new home page it will get that URL.

I don't  understand this statement.  Why would it have to get an URL that's already being used for something else?  Why couldn't it get some new URL that has never existed before?  Like garysgaragemahal.com/home ?
Or garysgaragemahal.com/away ?
Or garysgaragemahal.com/3re5gdfh24dfa455sadffgasdfg5jkh24 ?
I admit I know nothing about web design, but is there some reason that ANY of those couldn't be called "the home page"?

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The way Weebly, the site hosting company, appears to work is that the first page, aka the "home" page, gets the base URL.  But, in my casting about for how to manage things I've found that there are controls which appear to allow the editor to take charge of which page gets what URL.

I've not played with those controls for fear of breaking something on our working website, so I think I need to create a test website on which to check that, and other things, out.  But, if there's a way to keep garysgaragemahal.com as the forum so all those bookmarks are preserved, then we could have another page that would explain things and give the users simple choices of where to go.

On the menu, I've not yet found a way to put a title or some other attention-getting device with it, although I haven't given up.  However, there supposedly is a way to keep the menu visible.  In other words, it wouldn't disappear as it currently does and not come back until you scroll.  What do y'all think about making the menu fixed at the top of the page - assuming we can come up with a way to say something like "Documentation Menu" beside it?

But, in order to make Documentation Menu accurate we need to take the Bullnose Forum and the entries below it off the menu.  In other words, we need to move the Member's Map, FAQ's, etc into the forum via stickies as previously discussed.  It seems reasonable to put everything associated with the forum in the forum.  But, there's been little discussion about it, so I've been loathe to do it.

So, let's keep kicking this around, but I'd hope others would chime in as well.  I'd like to get a plan before implementing something and having to backtrack.

I would prefer to have the menu locked in place rather than having to scroll to see it. I've always found that feature annoying and it seems to complicate the forum for a new user. I think a stripped down menu would keep the locked menu from being too wordy, and should flow well.

Shaun - That's good input.  Thanks.

I can easily see that having the menu disappear until you scroll complicates things for new users.

But, I'm not sure what you mean by a "a stripped down menu would keep the locked menu from being too wordy".  The menu is the hamburger style for all devices, so are you suggesting going to a word-style menu?  That only works for non-mobile devices as they default to the hamburger.

Back to something that was previously suggested, what if we had something like this?  Maybe not in red.  Or maybe flashing neon.  Dunno.

Thoughts?

I was referring to the menu currently having 25 different links. If you pull out the FAQ, Forum, About Me, etc., that decreases the amount of links and simplifies the menu by keeping it down to just the tech info. I've personally had a few instances where I became frustrated with the menu because what I was looking for could be located in three different tabs, but I had to sort through all 25 tabs to find the one I was looking for.

Don't get me wrong, you're a great guy, I just don't feel tabs like "about me" should be mixed in with tech info.

Shaun - Trust me, I know what you mean about being frustrated with the menu because things could be located in several different tabs/pages.  It drives me up the wall, and probably a lot farther up than you since I should know where things are as I designed it.

But, therein lies the problem - I didn't really design it, or at least didn't design it in one sitting.  It was never envisioned to be this big, so there was never a comprehensive design that would accommodate everything that's in it.  And as it grew decisions had to be taken on where the new piece would go, but sometimes they weren't good decisions.

What it feels like is that we need someone(s) to take some time to focus on various aspects of the site.  Maybe a "steering team" that would kick ideas around and help set directions.  And, we need a way for people to register gaps and/or overlaps in the menu when they run across them so they can be fixed.

As for the About Me, I know what you mean.  Originally this was "my site" and I used it for many different things, including church.  Now it seems to have taken on a very specific reason for being - Bullnose trucks.  And, it may have graduated from just being my playground to being one of the main documentation sites for these trucks.

So perhaps it is time for some of the personal stuff to move elsewhere, or to at least be moved into a corner.  But, pretty much all websites have something like an About Me page where you can at least contact "them".

I agree the "About Me" section should be moved elsewhere, such as within the forum FAQ. That would keep it out of site, but still accessible to those who seek to know that info while perusing how to do other things on the forum.

Gary Lewis wrote

So perhaps it is time for some of the personal stuff to move elsewhere, or to at least be moved into a corner.  But, pretty much all websites have something like an About Me page where you can at least contact "them".

salans7 wrote

I agree the "About Me" section should be moved elsewhere, such as within the forum FAQ.

Here's a spitball to consider...  Make "About Me" a thread under some non-tech forum folder.  Then allow any user (including yourself, which would be the first post obviously) to make a post (which would be infinitely editable) with some bio/hobby/location/contact... info visible to other users.

There is actually a lot of vehicle information in “about me” including the gauge pod for the Bullnose dash pocket, 400 engine cradle and custom bumper designs. Also, again I may be in the minority, but I appreciate “about” sections to learn a little something about the website and/or the person behind it. If you do take it off the main menu don’t hide it too much 😉

Lots of good ideas, guys.

Steve - We already have the New Members folder, and everyone is encouraged to post about themselves in there.  So, how would your suggestion be different?  Not pushing back, just trying to understand.

Jonathan - You are right, there is vehicle info in About Me.  And it really doesn't belong there.  Nor does the stuff on building web sites nor on Bible lessons.  So I do need to find a better home for them.

But, I agree that there has to be an About section to explain what the site is for and how to contact the "owner".

Gonna be out and about for a medical test for Janey this afternoon, but back this evening.  Keep the ideas coming.

Gary Lewis wrote

We already have the New Members folder, and everyone is encouraged to post about themselves in there.  So, how would your suggestion be different?

I guess just move your "About me" info to the first position (sticky) in that folder.  IOW: do what you encourage others to do in that folder.

Steve - Let me think about that.

All - Google's statistics just came in for August and they give some information that might help our discussion about implementing a new home page.

The table below shows the sources of traffic coming to the website, meaning the forum and documentation.  The vast majority (73%) of the users coming here do so via a search.  Only 18% come here from a link they have, not one they've been given on another site or Facebook.  Links on other sites, like FTE, account for 5% of the users, and links from Facebook account for the other 4%.

So let's break that down a bit.  I seriously doubt that many of the 7031 users that came via a search were searching for garysgaragemahal.  Instead, I'd bet they were looking for wiring diagrams or other documentation, or a discussion on the forum.  In other words, a home page probably wouldn't help them?

Those coming directly here were doing so from their own links, and 44% of them were coming to the forum with the rest going to specific pages they'd saved or gotten in an email - like you and me.  Again, I don't see a home page helping.

Of the referrals, 68% of those were from FTE and they go to specific documentation pages.  (FTE doesn't like links to our forum, and took those out two years ago.)  Again, when going to a specific page a new home page won't help.

Last, the 403 users that are shown in "Social" were from Facebook, and most followed links to documentation.  I'm not seeing a home page helping there either.

What I am seeing is that greater than 90% of our users went to a specific page.  (Those coming directly to the forum accounted for about 9%.)  But we don't have a good way to help them see what else is available.  One problem is the menu that goes away until you scroll.  Another is that even if it doesn't go away, if they are on the forum it will be up above the prayer and the picture so may not be seen.

But, I don't know how to fix that.  So I have a proposal: Why don't I go to the Facebook pages I'm on and ask them what would make it easier for them?  And if some one of you frequents FTE perhaps you could ask what could be done to make finding the DOCUMENTATION easier for them.  (Do NOT mention the forum.  I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.)

Thoughts?

Gary Lewis wrote

Only 18% come here from a link they have...

Those coming directly here were doing so from their own links, and 44% of them were coming to the forum...

I'm part of the 44% of the 18%! I'm here mainly for the forum.

Asking everyone "what would make it easier for them?" will give you hundreds of different comments that would likely detract from improved usability, which should be your priority for your site as you grow in popularity. True it is your site, and inject your personality by all means, but this may come at a cost to the true efficiency and effectiveness your site.

I would stick to web design best practices, for example:
- keep unnecessary scripts, words and images/graphics to an absolute minimum especially off the home page,
- make sure your links are not hard-coded but rather dynamic,
- be less format driven and more content driven,
- keep your link names short eg /axel-ratios.html can easily be /axelratios.html or even /axels could be a subdirectory with its own .index.html file, within which Axel Ratios could be one of many menu links about axel related content

These are just a few off the top, but a quick search on SEO, navigation/speed/design best practices etc. will help you get an idea for what works. Before making changes to satisfy everyone's personal web searching style, I respectfully suggest to read a few articles on these topics. You know your site, its contents, your aspirations etc. like no one else. By analyzing that information, I feel you will have a better idea which direction to take.

One thing that immediately stands out each time I visit the site, is the amount of white space at the top of each page. Users would rather scroll less to get the pertinent information. A small site name and not much else is more user friendly.



For example, you could place the tag "DEDICATED TO BEING THE WORLD'S BEST DOCUMENTATION WEBSITE ​AND DISCUSSION COMMUNITY FOR 1980-1986 FORD TRUCKS" in your About page, like Google:



...which leads to more information if you want it:

Good point on the white space, Vic. And the stuff that is now taking up space, like the dedication, picture, and prayer, would go nicely on an About page.

So, what if the menu was changed to something like:

• About
• Forum
• Documentation
  • Bullnose FAQ's
  • Calibration....
  • Cooling Systems
  • etc