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Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Having just posted about EGR and ignition timing on Jonathan's thread, I'm thinking through the consequences of removing the EGR when I EFI Big Blue. I had hoped to use Bill's ignition timing "map", if that is the right word, as a starting point. After all, he's running EEC-V on Darth's 460, which is essentially a stock 1990 460 converted to MAF & SEFI via an EEC-V. (I'm sure glad he's writing up all about Darth as I have a great reference.

) Big Blue will have 1990 heads and injection system, but the 1996 harness Mark/Dyn Blin found in CA. So, Darth's engine and Big Blue's will be quite comparable, with a few minor exceptions:

Big Blue's block is an earlier block, so should have slightly higher compression with the EFI heads

Big Blue's cam is an Edelbrock Performer, and while still quite mild isn't truly stock

I don't intend to run EGR on Big Blue

So, with those exceptions what changes will I need to make? Can I clone your ECU, Bill, and then just turn EGR and the auto tranny off? And then start modifying the ignition timing from there?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Probably can, the spark table you will need to work with is pretty well defined, it is MAX spark something and has a relationship to engine load so you can dial it back as needed, you will also need to reduce the maximum advance under load for the higher compression as higher compression = faster burn rate.

Trivia item, but germane to this area. In the mid - late 80s, Chrysler changed the head on the 4 cyl. engines from a swirl design to one they called a "fast burn". The spark tables for the 2 heads are quite different, the fast burn does just that, a quicker combustion so the under load advance needs to be reduced. Turbo chargers, blowers, also need less advance under load as forced induction = higher cylinder pressure = fast burn rate.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Thanks. I'll be contacting Core Tuning in the not too-distant future to find out what I need from them. But, it just feels like there should be a book on it somewhere. Any suggested reading?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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There used to be some out there, there is a forum on FTE devoted to it. Many of the companies that sell MAF conversions have some tutorials on it, but it is more geared to selling their products. Yahoo groups has one that Dan Lee and I are members of EECTuner. There is information there, but that is where I dead ended on mine till Adam Marrer contacted me.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Ok, I’ll contact them and set something up. Thanks.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Riding in a relatively-new vehicle today on a dirt road with lots of dust made me realize that I need to put a filter on the inlet air to the HVAC system on Big Blue. Any thoughts on how to do that?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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You could probably come up with something but because there is no provision for it you will have to fabricate a holder for it.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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True. But how to get to it to change it? Might there be a way to put one where it is accessible by pulling the motor?

Also, this is making me rethink the recirc door and heater hose controls. It would sure be nice to have A/C, and maybe vent, and still have temp control - while the recirculate door is closed to keep the dust down.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Seems like it would have to go between cowl and fan plenum.

Spacing the fan/motor out might allow you to do that (somehow)

Trying to make a modern vehicle out of a 40 year old one.
It would be more expedient to re-skin Blue and call it done.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

1986F150Six

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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What about running the A/C on Max Cool, only?

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Jim - Welcome back, Kotter! Yes, you are right about the hazards of trying to make it a new vehicle. But, I do want to see how I might incorporate a filter. I have all the bits and pieces that would let me look at most options without pulling Big Blue apart, so may do that when the time comes.

David - I'm not sure that all my adventures will be in the summer. So, I'm thinking about winter as well. Seems to me that the best approach would be to put an electrically-operated vacuum valve on the feed to the recirculate door, and then put a Recirc switch in the cab. Most modern vehicles have that button or switch, and it would be easily done.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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This post was updated on .

It's funny.
Because my truck has no A/C, the lever on my controls says 'Outside Air' - 'Vent/Heat' and 'Off'

Of course off is not OFF, it's recirculate.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, FWIW, the later vehicles have the filters in different locations, but all have them so any air drawn into the cabin are is filtered. The best way I can think of would be a filter holder of some kind in the right side air box probably right behind the firewall opening into the blower fresh air intake. It would mean having to remove the access panel to change it but (a) a gasket instead of sealer and (b) maybe some aircraft style Dzuz fasteners for quick open/close.

Opening at far left is HVAC fresh air inlet, next one is recirc, then inlet to inside ducts.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Jim - Simple is good. Mine isn't that simple.

Bill - Here's a shot from a page in a manual someone gave me (

) that shows a simple cutaway of the HVAC system. I realize it probably isn't this easy, but if a filter could be put there then it would filter all the air, whether fresh or recirculate.

I'll have to take a peek inside the ducting I have to see if that's even possible. Perhaps it could come in via the blower motor's hole?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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This post was updated on .

Like I said....
Space the blower motor out 1" and make a U channel to hold a furnace filter in front (behind?) the wheel.

You could slide it in from the top if the hood allows.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

Administrator

This post was updated on .

From the point closest to the hamster wheel by nv, to the wall of v.
Pretty much at right angles to what you are suggesting.

At least that way it would all be under the hood and you could get to it.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

Administrator

I like that! As shown below. But, why space the motor out? Why not pull the motor and put the filter through the opening - assuming it can be done?

However, looking at the illustration below I'm not so sure:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

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Square filter, horseshoe hole.

But you can't really put a 1" spacer between the fan housing and the firewall seal, so...

Find a 10x10 (or whatever) filter and bend a 1/2x1x1/2 channel to slide it into.
And move the blower out enough for it to fit.
Then cut a slot in the top of the plenum.
Slide it in and seal the box

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

Administrator

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand. I think you are saying to cut a slot in the plenum that attaches to the firewall. Correct?

And, I think you are assuming, which is probably a good assumption, that the squirrel cage will hit the filter w/o spacing it out. Right?

I thought I had pictures of the pieces, here, but unfortunately I only have pics of the interior pieces. I need to rectify that omission when I can as good pics would help a lot in this discussion.

But, my question was whether or not it looks like the fan will pass through the rectangular opening of that plenum. If not, then maybe no spacing is needed?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

Administrator

It looks as if the piece that bolts to the flange you're pointing out is recessed.
Idk.
But if it is, maybe the fan itself could move forward, leaving everything else where it is able to bolt up.

And the filter track could slip right in in front of (or behind) the flange

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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