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USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

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Gary Lewis

USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

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Some of you may remember a problem I had where I bricked the EEC-V computer on Big Blue and had to have Core Tuning log on and fix it. Turns out I was trying to use two USB-A ports on the tablet I had then to run the Binary Editor dongle, the Mongoose cable, and logging connector. And to do that I was using a USB-A port expander, to get the three USB-A ports needed, but something in that setup was not fast enough and apparently the write to the ECU was corrupted.

After that I bought this Dell laptop with three USB-A ports and all was well. But now the hinge is failing on the lid to this laptop and instead of repairing it, if that could be done, I'm considering replacing it. And I have discovered that finding another laptop or tablet with three USB-A ports is very difficult if not impossible. So I have a plan I want to run past y'all.

I'm finding that there are plenty of machines with two USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports, and there are good port expanders that create multiple USB-A ports from a single USB-C port. So my thinking is:

Logging: When logging, which requires three USB-A ports, I'll run a port expander off of one USB-C port and all should be well since there's no writing to the ECU.

Writing: When I write to the ECU I'll disconnect the logging cable and use both USB-ports through a USB-C/USB-A converter for the Binary Editor dongle and the Mongoose cable.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan? What am I missing?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Gary, I use a dual boot older MacBook Pro. I use one of the two USB ports for the Mongoose and the other with a port expander for the dongle, Mouse and Wideband O2 sensor input if needed. The Mongoose needs a dedicated port so there is no other traffic on it (Per Adam Marrer). I learned the hard way on Darth, got a totally corrupt load, but was able to rewrite it.

Bill

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Perfect. So just the Mongoose needs to be dedicated. I’m looking at a Surface Pro 9 tablet and it has two USB-C/Thunderport 4’s, so I can put a USB-C/USB-A converter on one port and a port expander on the other. Thanks!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Gary Lewis wrote

Perfect. So just the Mongoose needs to be dedicated. I’m looking at a Surface Pro 9 tablet and it has two USB-C/Thunderport 4’s, so I can put a USB-C/USB-A converter on one port and a port expander on the other. Thanks!

Well, at this point the above doesn't appear to be true. Just spent considerable time on the phone with two different techs at OPUS, the people that make the Mongoose cable, and they cannot get the Mongoose to work through either of my two different USB-C/A converters.

The acid test is to connect the Mongoose cable to a vehicle with the key on and to the computer. Then open up Device Manager (right-click the Windows logo) and scroll all the way to the bottom of the list. There at the very bottom you should find Vehicle Passthrough Interface. On the "old" Dell laptop running Windows 11 I see that, but on this Surface Pro 9 Win 11 using either the Acer USB Hub or the Anker USB Adapters I don't. So something in the conversion from USB-A to USB-C is NOT working.

Given that I'm going to have to keep an old laptop around in order to program ECU's via Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable - unless someone has a better idea.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

I have never tried my newer MacBook Pro as it has the Apple CPU and will not run Windows. I have an older MacBook Pro with the Intel CPU and set it up as a dual boot and that's the one I use on Darth and with a program called Forscan to run diagnostics on the Flexes.

From what I remember Binary Editor only works in a Windows environment.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Yes, BE only runs under Windows. And now with the news that the Mongoose cable doesn't seem to work on USB-C with adapters and most, if not all, new machines come only with USB-C/Thunderbolt-4, they need to rethink things.

The tech I drew said "Your Surface Pro wasn't made for automotive diagnostic work." So, are there new computers made for automotive diagnostic work? I had assumed that people just use ordinary laptops?

I have a plan that I think will work. Janey has been using an old laptop of mine for her sewing/quilting work, but has been complaining that there's too much software on it and she wants a "clean machine". So this afternoon I found a 2020-era HP desktop with an i5 processor, 16 GB of memory, and 256 GB of SSD for $120. It is running W10, the same as that laptop, and will only have whatever apps we put on it, so will be "clean".

And I'll take the old laptop for my Binary Editor computer. But it only has two USB-A ports, so I'll have to be careful when I'm writing to an ECU and ensure the Mongoose cable gets one of those ports. Not ideal, but it will work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

I have a 4 port USB 2.0 expander.

The switches opposite the ports allow you to turn them on or off.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

I've been doing some reading on this subject and found this article that seems to help. Or this article from Kensington.

Part of the problem here is that this tablet doesn't just have USB-C ports. It has USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports. That appears to say it has ports that use the USB-C style connector but have Thunderbolt 4 capabilities, like higher power for charging, faster data rates, multiple displays from one connector, and daisy-chaining up to 6 devices on one port.

Further, there's backward compatibility. Kensington says:

Thunderbolt™ is backwards compatible with USB-C. A Thunderbolt™ port will support any USB-C device by reverting to USB-C mode—and supporting the device to the max of its USB-C capabilities. By contrast, a USB-C port will not support a Thunderbolt device. So, while a Thunderbolt™ host laptop will support Thunderbolt™ and USB-C devices, a USB-C host laptop will only support USB-C devices. It’s also important to mention that a Thunderbolt™ cable is the easiest choice for Thunderbolt™ hosts since it will support both Thunderbolt™ and USB-C devices to their max capabilities.

And everything I read says USB-C is fully backward compatible with USB 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0, which are the protocols used in USB-A connectors. But for some reason my Mongoose cable with a USB-A connector plugged into a USB-A to USB-C converter which is plugged into a Thunderbolt 4 port doesn't work. I wonder if a Thunderbolt 4 to USB-A converter would, but everything I'm finding with a brand I recognize is $200+, and I'm not willing to gamble on that since I have a solution.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

We went through a bunch of this a few years back when we got newer MacBook Pros. They use Lightning ports. We had to get Lightning to USB adapters for things like a mouse. Hopefully market pressure will force everyone to a mutually cross compatible system.

I thought my Mongoose Pro cable was bad, but found a shot of Radio Shack contact cleaner and lubricant fixed the problem.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

I'm in over my head. So far I've tried the following in the Acer hub and/or Anker adapter:

USB-A thumb drives: Several different ones and they work perfectly.

DVD drive: This is also a USB-A device and it worked perfectly installing TurboCAD

Brother label printer: This is also a USB-A device and it wouldn't work on this computer as I was not getting the driver installed. I would go through the installation procedure and it said it was installed but to connect the printer and it would be recognized. I connected it and it wasn't recognized. Several times. So I connected it to the old computer and it worked perfectly. Back to the new computer and no workee.

Then I realized that I was using a white cable I'd not used before, so I got the old black cable I'd been using and it worked immediately on the new computer. Then I plugged in the white cable and now it works as well.

All I can figure is that there is a connection in the old black cable has a connection the new white cable doesn't and the app needed to see that one time, at which point it confirmed the driver installation and all is good.

SD Card: The Acer USB-C hub has an SD card reader and it works fine.

HDMI: The Acer USB-C hub has an HDMI port and it works perfectly. The image on the TV was every bit as sharp as on the screen on the tablet.

Mongoose cable: As said, it doesn't work through either the Acer hub or the Anker converter.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Just for S & Gs, do you have any kind of contact cleaner? If you do, spray or drip or daub (whichever works for you) the Mongoose USB plug and plug and unplug it several times. That was the problem with mine. It would not show up in the Device manager except as an "unknown device".

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

I'll try that, Bill. But I'm not going to hold my breath since it worked on the Dell but not this Surface. Still, it won't hurt. And I have CRC's electrical contact cleaner - ran out of the Radio Shack tuner cleaner. That was good stuff.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

I'm going to say this knowing you probably know.

On some of the corporate jets I worked on they used, I believe 486 computers, because they weren't running a bunch of stuff, it set engine parameters for best power, fuel flow etc.

We checked and downloaded the data onto laptops, as we got newer laptops we found they wouldn't communicate, we had to "dumb" them down as I liked to say, we slowed the baud rate so they could communicate.

Finally we had to start keeping fellow employees old laptops because even newer ones would not communicate.

Is that something that could be causing this problem?

Hope I made sense I know you and Bill are computer types, I knew enough to get my job done.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Dane - Thanks, but I don't know how to dumb this thing down. However, I'm beginning to believe that it is something in all of the "this emulates that" which is going on. Something that the emulation doesn't do that the designers of the Mongoose cable expected.

However I will clean the connector on the cable as Bill suggested, just in case.

But not today. I'm headed to Wichita to meet my "new" cousin. Did a DNA test a couple of years ago and found that I have a first cousin that is my age and I'd never heard of him. Got in touch with him and have been blown away with the similarities between us. He started in Math & Physics in college and ended up as an Electrical Engineer. I did exactly the opposite. His wife's grandparents lived in my home town in Kansas, and she's somehow related to Janey as they both descend from the same guy in the Cherokee tribe. And on and on.

So testing will have to be tomorrow. But if it doesn't work I think the backup plan of using the laptop Janey is using as her sewing computer will work. Not ideal at all, but it'll work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

I think I may have gotten to the bottom of this issue, but first I did try cleaning the connectors on the Mongoose cable but got no joy.

I was in Best Buy today, which is where I bought the Microsoft Surface Pro 9 tablet, and explained the problem I'm having. Turns out they've seen problems with the Microsoft products before. They believe that is because they don't run the standard Windows OS. Instead they run a specialized version of Windows and not all drivers function correctly on them.

So I think I'm stuck. It isn't going to work and I'll have to accept that. Fortunately I have a work around, but in case anyone else is wanting to use a Mongoose cable from a Microsoft computer, I'll say "good luck" as it may not work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

Gary, my experience has been, if it is a real computer, ie, desktop or laptop, not a tablet, I have not had a problem, even on my Intel CPU MacBook Pro Dual boot.

The only issue I have had on my Mongoose was the USB connector not making good contact and it wasn't being recognized by my computer. Once I cleaned it the problem went away.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: USB Ports, Mongoose Cable, & Binary Editor

Administrator

My previous Surface worked fine, but didn't have enough USB ports to ensure I didn't have problems writing to the ECU. So I bought the Dell laptop with 3 USB ports and it worked great. But the hinge has broken and I figured I'd buy a new Surface instead of repairing a machine that was several years old.

Maybe I'll see if it can be fixed. But I do have the HP laptop that is coming available when we put a $120 desktop in Janey's sewing room. (Yep, $120 for a i5 running W10 with 16GB of memory and 256 GB of SSD.)

Anyway, I've had a tablet run BE and support the Mongoose cable. But apparently not this one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile