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The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

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Tarheel Blue

The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

I was hoping that with this post I would be able to tie up the dangling posts that I have out there;
ISO Styleside SWB w/ Dual Tank owners
'95 FDM for your '85 gauge
Definitive way to wire an electric fuel pump for a Pre EFI Bullnose

Unfortunately, I’m in need of some more help.

The Good - I have installed a 33gal Bronco tank into my truck along with a new FDM from a ‘95 Bronco, all new nylon lines/ fittings, a Holley FPR. The sender modification seems to be working just as I’d hoped as the gauge reads correctly. I was able to adjust the fuel pressure to 5psi to work with my YFA and there are no leaks. So far so good, right?

The Bad - went to start it up for the first time and again, everything seemed to be working and satisfying my goals ( very fast prime of the fuel bowl resulting in extremely short crank before ignition) However, it will not idle.
I can keep it running by feathering the pedal, but the moment that I let off the gas, she dies immediately. I can hear the electric pump quit one second after the engine dies, so I’m assuming that it’s supplying gas the whole time it’s running.

The Ugly - I’m at a complete loss as to where to go looking for the problem.

<nabble_embed></nabble_embed> https://youtu.be/6oL8PJJrfvA

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

Two things. First, on the Youtube there are two issues with the way you posted it. The first is that you got a link to it and not the embed code. You hit Share and then Embed and get that code. And, you then paste the code between the > and < of the code Nabble puts in when you click Embed.

As for the stalling at idle, my first thought was that you still have too much fuel pressure. And while that is possible the way it dies in the video is immediate, as if you turned the key off. Not laboring, which is what I'd expect if the carb was flooding.

How easily does it start after it dies at idle? Is there any chance the idle stop screw or idle solenoid was changed while the work was being done? Maybe you could turn the idle stop screw up a bit and see if it will run there?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

I’ll try to do better on the next video

It starts back up immediately, every time, just like I was hoping it would.
I have tried to raise the idle screw on the linkage with no benefit. If I slowly lift off of the pedal, it seems to want to die around 1500 rpm.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

As you slowly release the pedal does it die instantly like it does in the video? If so I'd say that you either have an electrical problem where the ignition is shutting off, or the idle circuit is plugged in the carb.

Is the engine warm when this happens? Maybe there's some issue with the choke being on too much or completely off?

And have you tried opening up the idle mixture screw? Write down where it is before you change it, but I'd open it up a couple of turns to see if that makes a difference. Maybe it is way too lean?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

any chance of a vacuum leak?

Gary Lewis

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

Good thought, Matt. A huge leak, like the brake booster hose left off, might do that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I wouldn’t say it dies instantly, but around 1500 it really starts running rough. If I want it to stay running, give the pedal a tap and it smooths back out, but it’s now around 2000.
I don’t think it’s an electrical issue, but the idle mixture sounds like a good possibility. Ill play with that a bit and see what happens. Side note, While waiting on parts over the last few months, I would bide my time doing lots of little projects that needed doing. One of which was to rebuild the carb. Perhaps I didn’t do something correctly, however I’ve rebuilt this carb a couple of times over the years and it always was spot on when reinstalling.

Engine is always cold and feel pretty good about where the choke is. Been in the 60s here and choke has maybe a 1/4” opening prior to start.

Your previous thought about not enough pressure is sort of similar to a thought that I have, not enough flow. I just can’t think of an easy way to check the current flow rate.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

mat in tn

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

it is so easy to find a bad hose, loose fit, broken cap etc. while not even noticing that you disturbed it when working on old trucks. i see so many brake booster vac hoses with the clamp two to three inches up un the hose because the last person missed it or didn't bother to clamp it. this type thing can be anywhere the last person worked. look in all the hard to reach /see places. also check that the carb has no "play" within it.

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Thanks Mat, and you’re absolutely right about misc hoses leaking. That is one of the other “side projects” that I did when waiting for parts. I replaced ALL of my hoses, found a couple of devices (EGR, PCV, etc. ) that needed replacing and made sure that my EVAC system was back to working properly.

Hold that thought . . .

When Gary and I were musing possible fuel issues it occurred to me, an engine needs the correct balance of fuel AND air. If I’m fairly confident that I don’t have a fuel issue, perhaps I have an air issue.

Even though I thought that I was being very thorough in checking all of my hose connections, I just found a fairly large port on the main tree that I failed to put a cap on. 3/8” on the bottom/ back of the tree and not detectable at a good glance.

I capped it, started her up, still wouldn’t idle, but much less sudden dive towards dying. Adjusted fast idle and idle mixture a bit and .. .

She lives!!

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

Congratulations!!!!!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

I love the simple stuff

FuzzFace2

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Kurt, good to hear you are plugging away on the truck.

At first I was thinking, you are still running a carb so there should be fuel in the bowl so how could it be a fuel issue.

Then thinking were did you pick up the signal for the electric pumps to run?
If off a IGN signal could it be pulling too much power?

Then reading the whole post I see you did other work, dont you know only do 1 thing at a time LOL
and left a cap off. Again good you found the issue.

About the power are you still running the 1G / 2G low out put at idle ALT?
I wonder now with the electric fuel pump and if lights are on, think you said you dont use AC?, what is the ALT putting out?
Dont want you to get stuck somewhere with a dead battery and more so when you get the EFI installed.

Now that the weather is getting nicer will the truck be ready for some outings?
I dont want to be the only 80's Ford truck at them LOL
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Thanks Dave!
Installed 3G many years ago. Should be good there although it’s been a minute since I’ve verified output. Need to put that on my to do list

I still need to tweak timing and then dial in the carb a bit more.

Spent yesterday working on modifying the metal on the bed

I hope to bring her out and about this spring/ summer.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

So, what's the plan with the bed? Dual tanks? And why the hole in the floor?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Eliminated the midship, just running the 33gal rear.

The hole in the bed is for easy access to the FDM should the need ever arise in the future without having to drop the tank or remove the bed. Will weld in a ledge around the entire opening and then fasten the cut out plate to the ledge.

I’m relocating the fill door from in front of the wheel to behind for the aft tank filler.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Gary Lewis

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

I think the 33 gallon tank makes sense. And the access to the FDM does as well. It is a PAIN to get to the top of the rear tank.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Machspeed

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Tarheel Blue

Curious to see how your access port to the fuel tank works out, please keep us updated. The frame on your truck looks quite clean; did you do some work back there?

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

Didn’t really do too much to the frame, crossmembers we’re worked on a bit and my better half likes to help sometimes. I usually hand her a rag and simply say, “ you asked what you can do”

The truck is born and raised right here in Apex, NC.
I’m the second owner, originally the parts runner for a local tire shop.
Only 24K miles so the frame is pretty clean.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

Tarheel Blue

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

And yes, I do plan to tie all of my various threads together in to one project thread sometime soon.
It might be a minute tho, just discovered that I get to fabricate an exhaust system from just before the Cat all the way back. Got some head scratching, cutting and welding in my near future.

Kurt K
'85 XLT Lariat, 4.9L, NP435, 3.08LS, DSII, 130a 3G, PMGR, '87 MC, P235/R75

grumpin

Re: The Good, The Bad and maybe The Ugly?

In reply to this post by Tarheel Blue

My truck has a cutout over the front tank that was done before I bought it.

My thought was they cutout to the easy one. I bought a bed floor replacement square from LMC.

I was going to have a friend weld it in and thought since it’s there might as well leave it, so it’s screwed in.

It had a piece of thin corrugated steel on it when I bought it, a little thicker than aluminum foil.

Also I have a bed mat down and it’s under my saddle toolbox.

I don’t like it because I use my truck and want a solid bed, but hasn’t been a problem so far.

I’m curious also to see your results.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona