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kramttocs

Re: The Camano Experience

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This post was updated on .

Not sure on the cfm since eBay lists them at 2150. Even at 0 resistance that's much higher than big name brands and I can't see them throwing in some miracle fans as part of a radiator combo.

This shroud may very well be too restrictive as I agree the cruising behavior is suspect. I've seen some mention of rubber flappers (where the slots on mine are) to fully open when cruising.
In the current state, not giving those slots much credit, a large area of the radiator is covered by a flat wall which can't flow well vs the funnel like factory shroud.

I've heard the same about those OEM fans. For anyone else trying that's what I'd suggest also. This just kind of morphed from a fitment test and at this point if the SPAL fan doesn't work I am done putting money into the idea. Will go back to what worked and throw the shroud back in the corner.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

ArdWrknTrk

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

Well, I hope it works out for you.

Sure seems like you're pretty committed at this stage.
The wiring certainly looks nice!

I think even the 3.8 Taurus fans are rated more than 2150 cfm.
But again we're talking more than 25yo cars, and there aren't many left in the JY.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

Yes, I hope you get this sorted. But I'm with you, if the fans are still on at cruise something is wrong. And that very well could be the design of the shroud. Which, if that is the case then whatever fan you put in there will have to be running when on the highway at yesterday's temps. And then you have no reserve.

I hadn't though of the shroud being an issue before, but that lends a lot of credence to using one large fan and the original shroud. You know it is well designed and it has been working. So all you need is a two-speed fan to put in there so you can have some flow while sitting at lights with the engine idling.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Bruce moose4x4

Re: The Camano Experience

Could you just get an extension made and move the whole unit back several inches? OR take the fans off the plate and use the zip tie mounts to put them on the radiator and put the original shroud back on to sorta hide them.

Bruce aka Moose--1978 F250 LWB Flareside, Dana 60's w/ 4:10's, 460, c6

kramttocs

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

All good ideas. Next time I am at the jy I am going to take a look around for the Taurus or Mark VIII fan.
There is plenty of room so spacing the shroud back is something to try before cutting the slots out and putting flappers over them.

Holding out some hope for the new fan though as it has a lot less material that would be blocking flow.

When starting it up last night for the test run the alt squealed for a couple seconds. Tried it again tonight and the same thing. This was even after having the onboard battery maintainer plugged in all night.
Confirmed tension was good and alignment was good. I was using the 1V alt pulley from Powermaster as opposed to the 2V from L&L I had been using with the other alt. Got to comparing the two and quickly noticed the Powermaster was a lot narrower down in the groove causing the belt to sit a little proud of the pulley.
Swapped pulleys, started it up, and no noise at all

Tested again a couple hours later and still quiet.
Might be premature but fingers crossed. The belt sets a lot deeper in the L&L pulley.

If this takes care of it, longevity aside, I am really happy with the alternator. Sitting at idle the gauge (voltmeter and now connected at the battery via a relay vs going through the ign switch) was a tad under 3/4. Turned on everything - hi beams, halogen running lights, halogen backup lights, stereo/amp, etc and needle moved maybe half it's width. Watched it when the radiator fans kicked in and no movement. Same with a/c on. Only one non-scientific test but as far as idle output, it appears it is performing as advertised.

Question for you guys:
Thinking ahead on the flaps if I go that route. Spal makes some (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30130012) but they are too small. What would be the best material? Nitrile, neoprene,...? 1/16" thick? Needs to be flexible and light enough the airflow opens it.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

ArdWrknTrk

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

I can't really offer advice there.
I've always used the stock clutch fan and shroud on this truck, and only ever had an electric fan that lip tied through the radiator core with no shroud at all.

Is part of the issue that your fans don't freewheel when driving at speed?
Looking at it, you wouldn't think this shroud is blocking that much flow, but appearance can be deceptive.
How big can flaps be? It doesn't look like much room is available.

Like I said above, I'm a little confused that fans are even needed when cruising at highway speeds.
I can definitely see that a more conical shroud would help with passive cooling.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

Glad you got the squeal problem seemingly solved.

If the Spal ones are too small and you don't find others I'd see about cutting some from inner tubes. Even bicycle tubes might work, although truck tubes would have a lot more meat in them as well as size.

But I'm with Jim - I'm not seeing why the current setup won't work. Perhaps there are just too many blades? But won't the fans windmill when driving? Maybe spacing back would help?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

IF I try the flaps, I am thinking something like this - the black remains and the 3 squares inside are removed. Cutting out the slots entirely but leaving the meat between.

Good question - would be an interesting test to put the fans on a temp switch inside the cab and shutting them off when cruising to see if it has an impact. I know during the drive the other day that the fans were under power the whole time so maybe if they were freewheeling it would have cooled better passively.

I did just find out that my radiator cap was leaking fairly significantly. I had drained a little coolant from the block to install the sensor so I'd vented the radiator and assume the leak started after that. Not a fan of the quality of the anode cap

. Put the original back on for now.
Didn't notice the leak as it had to fill up the sway bar crossmember before it made it to the floor.

Jim - how is the epoxied bottom neck port in your radiator holding up? Looking to do that this evening as the rubber cap I clamped on is starting to show cracks at the tip.

Gary - I like the truck tube idea. We have some used rear tractor tire tubes at my parents that are the right price

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

I'm doubting the radiator cap had anything to do with the fan issue, and I don't think you do either. Right? (Another reason I'm running a very stock radiator cap - I've not had good luck with "oddball" caps.)

On the flaps, I think your plan is good - assuming that is what you finally decide to do.

As for what to do, I know you have the two-fan cover (not really a shroud?) and another small fan coming. But I'm thinking the better approach is a Mark VIII fan and a factory shroud. I measured Big Blue's shroud's opening at ~22 1/2", so an 18" Mk VIII fan would be a sloppy fit in the opening. But there are plenty of factory shrouds for these trucks designed for an 18 or 18 1/2" fan. And I think they fit the same size radiator?

The Mk VIII comes with its own shroud, but it is way too small for our radiators. So what about cutting that shroud and inserting it into a factory shroud with an 18" opening? Here's a Dorman fan from Amazon for similar vehicles and you can see what I'm thinking about.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: The Camano Experience

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In reply to this post by kramttocs

It seems to be holding fine.
I used marine tex or water weld putty and clamped the rubber cap back over.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

kramttocs

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Right - that was just kind of a complaint about the "kill two birds with one stone" radiator cap and was unrelated to temp. Guess another reason of why mess with stock when it works...not like the stock fan/shroud at all

Thanks for that link. I agree that seems like the best of both worlds. Downside is that I think it would require a beefier controller than the Davies, Craig that I have. The SPAL fan is already money spent and cutting holes is free so if neither of those solve the issue, it's back to the mechanical fan. Would still keep an eye out for a jy Mark VIII fan to play around with though.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

Found this thread and thought I'd pass it on: Ultimate Mark VIII fan thread. In it they mention a DC Controls FK-85P controller. That's the manual on it, but here's a link to DC Controls. Their Fan Control page takes you to two options:

Multi-Speed and Dual Fan Controllers and Accessories: Our relay based controllers take advantage of two speed motors utilized in various OEM cooling fans. Operation is identical to the Ford CCRM, but in a stand alone unit with a configurable temperature setting. Our 2-fan solid state controllers are designed to power the highest amperage dual fans.

Constant Temperature Controllers and Accessories: Our constant temperature, full variable speed controllers have long been considered the best on the market. They can be utilized with virtually any cooling fan and employ pulse width modulation in order to set the fan to any speed in order to attain a constant temperature without cycling, regardless of driving conditions.

This stuff is starting to get pricey!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: The Camano Experience

Gary Lewis wrote

This stuff is starting to get pricey!

And why a factory set up that works is the best way to go in my book

If its not broke dont fix it!

And going with electric fans that may not keep the motor cool you also need to upgrade the ALT>
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

ArdWrknTrk

Re: The Camano Experience

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This post was updated on .

Maybe you missed the 200A Powermaster alternator Scott just installed?

Brian at DC Controls doesn't seem to be on top of things (third hand, I don't know if that's the case today)

If you really want to go all in there's always Darryl @ www.autocoolguy.com
He is a Vietnam Vet and makes an (evidently) bulletproof 125A PWM controller.
https://www.autocoolguy.com/product-page/hf-125-7-khz-pwm-controller

Since I was digging in to this a bit, I've also found that the 2010-14 F series tow package fans are evidently even beefier than the MK VIII (and they may be a better fit to our radiators)

These seem to go for from $112 TYC to $195 Motorcraft (China)
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2010,f-150,5.4l+v8,1444700,cooling+system,radiator+fan+assembly,2181

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

kramttocs

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

That's a good thread Gary. Lot of helpful information compiled there.
Jim - those autocoolguy controllers are crazy! They definitely look like the best of breed. The 10-14 F Series fans are a great find.
Quick search didn't show specs on the fan but the measurements for a direct fit radiator replacement shows:
OVERALL LENGTH (IN) 40.32
OVERALL HEIGHT (IN) 18.00
OVERALL WIDTH (IN) 6.25

Dave - you are correct. When reading electric fan conversion threads I don't know if I've ever seen a case where the mechanical fan wasn't cutting it assuming the rest of the system was operating correctly. My situation was the same and the stock fan was keeping mine very cool. This is more just an experiment and is very easy to revert back to the factory setup if it fails. Granted, I hadn't planned to spend more money than getting a controller but I will fully admit that after seeing the clean look of the electric fans, it would be really nice if it works

Jim - very much appreciate the water weld mention.
After cleaning the tube I ran an 8mm tap through there like Gary and applied the water weld. Haven't ran the truck yet but this seems like it will work great. The water weld swelled and is hard as a rock now so I can't believe there will be any leaks. Put a new cap and clamp back over it as well though just in case.

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

Scott - Where did you find the info on the 2010-14 F-Series fans? I did some searching and didn't find what I was looking for, including the dimensions.

But, those dimensions are BIG! I measured Big Blue's shroud @ 28 1/2 x 19, and the radiator at about 33 x 19. So 40.32" wide is huge!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

That was from a site selling Mishimoto's and maybe I missed it being a special fit? That measurement includes everything though (core, tank and ears) so isn't really that helpful.

Looking at the Rock Auto link from Jim I randomly grabbed radiator part number: CSF 3546

For that, Summit shows:

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

ArdWrknTrk

Re: The Camano Experience

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In reply to this post by kramttocs

I poked around looking for dimensions before I mentioned the '10-14 dual fan assembly, but it's a challenge on my phone.

That's good information Scott! Thank you.

Perhaps it will help someone else who's looking to switch to electric fans.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

That is good info, Scott. And the 2010-14 radiators are a lot closer to the size of ours than the MK VIII radiators. But they aren't a perfect match, which leaves me still wondering about using a shroud with an 18 or 18 1/2" opening and slipping a Mk VIII fan into the opening.

As for this thread helping others, I think it already has. There was a guy of FB this morning asking how to put electric fans on his Bullnose so I gave him a link to where that discussion started in this thread and he "liked" it.

Having said that, at some point we may want to have a thread or page dedicated to what we've learned about e-cooling these trucks.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: The Camano Experience

Administrator

I hear a lot of freaking out and crying about "15 HORSEPOWER!!!"

But that's why most belt fans have a clutch.
I can hold my fan with one finger from stopped, as long as the clutch is cool.
If that's 1/20th of a horsepower I'd be surprised.

I get it, that people want their fan pulling anytime the AC is on.
My Ex's Honda had a pusher fan mounted in front of the condenser.
But looking at the size of the thing for these trucks I don't see that as a viable option.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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