Starter solenoid? Starter? Wiring?

Are starter solenoids (relay) really so badly made these days that not a good one is to be had? Or do you all think I've got a bad starter? Hate to beat this dead horse but I've went through 3 starter solenoids that apparently are bad. Or I'm completely missing something. New ignition switch, not lock cylinder, the actual ignition switch. And as soon as I connect the negative cable the engine starts cranking, irregardless of the position of the key. Anyone got any suggestions? Am I missing something?
Secondly: the last 3 relay's have been standard brand, I've got NAPA, O'Reilly's, and bumper to bumper (Crow Burlingame) stores in my town. I hadn't had any luck getting a factory motorcraft relay, what is everyone using?
This has me really spinning my head, I feel like it's something simple that I'm missing.
Appreciate any help.

Take a VOM and put it across the two large lugs on the solenoid. Do this with no wires connected to it. If they show continuity, then the solenoid is bad, in a way that would make the starter act the way it's acting. If there is no continuity, then put it all back in place, but don't connect the large positive wire going to the starter. Put the VOM on the setting to test for 12 volts, and connect the black lead of the VOM to the battery negative, the red lead to the lug on the solenoid that would go to the starter. Have someone turn the key to the "start" position. If you observe 12 volts on the VOM when the key is in the "start" position, and no volts when it's in the "run" or "off" positions, then the solenoid is good.

Thanks, heading back to my shop now, I'll see what I got 🤞👍

I've got voltage in all settings. Gonna try a napa relay now and see what happens.

you have voltage in all settings under what condition? with someone turning the key or without?

Yes, voltage in all settings, start, run, and off. I've also discovered a hole in the voltage regulator that's mounted just below this solenoid. So that can't be good. I have another that will be in tomorrow. Truck still isn't starting, although I feel fairly confident that this solenoid that's mounted is good. Now the battery is dead, I'm sure from me cranking and cranking and my jump box is throwing a fault that the connections are crossed, which I can plainly see they aren't. So something is a miss here. I've got to goto work in a bit, so I'm going to do some wire chasing and repair, I've got way too many degraded and just plain worn out wires showing exposed copper that could likely be adding to my trouble.

Again any advice is welcome.

Hole isn't factory 😂

Starter relays are a crapshoot. Try and find a motorcaft one.

If your starter is bad it could be pulling a high current and making the relay fail.

Pull the starter, have it tested.

Look for the PMGR starter upgrade that people here have done. It takes the relay out of the equation.

Mark wrote

Again any advice is welcome.

Before more advice can be given, you need to test the new solenoid with the tests I described. If they pass those tests, and the starter motor doesn't crank when the negative cable is hooked up, then the problem should be solved.

If the starter cranks with the key in "off" or "run" when you hook up the negative cable, then something else is wrong besides the starter solenoid. Likewise if the motor won't crank at all when the key goes to "start", then something else is wrong.

Let's establish where exactly we are before we try to go anywhere else.

The new relay does infact pass all the tests you listed 👍 so I feel like I'm good to that point.

I DON'T think I'm good to the point of this voltage regulator. One of the wires that is in it's harness is the red wire with a blue stripe. A wire I know is part of the ignition. I'm thinking THIS is part of, if not the cause of my ignition woes.

Again I absolutely could be wrong but if I can eliminate that (new voltage regulator) at the very least I'll have peace of mind and can move forward.

Can you post a pic of your starter relay please - a sanity check on the wiring.

Yes sir, and again guys I apologize for all the questions, this is the oldest vehicle I've ever really worked on, so I'm learning. I appreciate all your help.

Mark wrote

I've got voltage in all settings. Gonna try a napa relay now and see what happens.

Note that NAPA and others carry 2 or more lines of parts.
Most people want the cheapest so thats what is looked up and given out as a replacement.
I went with top of the line NAPA relay and have not had any issues with it.
Dave ----

Mark wrote

The new relay does infact pass all the tests you listed 👍 so I feel like I'm good to that point.

I DON'T think I'm good to the point of this voltage regulator. One of the wires that is in it's harness is the red wire with a blue stripe. A wire I know is part of the ignition. I'm thinking THIS is part of, if not the cause of my ignition woes.

Again I absolutely could be wrong but if I can eliminate that (new voltage regulator) at the very least I'll have peace of mind and can move forward.

Good, good progress then. Have you tried to hook up all the starter wires and crank it from the key?

Yes tried to start, battery was drained. Tested battery it was at something like 5V so got the jump box out, jump box threw a fault saying the cables were crossed. I knew they weren't. So I stopped. Went back through the test you had given me, just to make sure I hadn't inadvertently damaged anything. (I didn't think I had, but wanted a measure to be sure) so with only limited time I started looking for a short, found the hole in the voltage regulator and changed a few wires that I knew I needed to replace. And that's where I left it for the day.

FuzzFace2 wrote

Mark wrote

I've got voltage in all settings. Gonna try a napa relay now and see what happens.

Note that NAPA and others carry 2 or more lines of parts.
Most people want the cheapest so thats what is looked up and given out as a replacement.
I went with top of the line NAPA relay and have not had any issues with it.
Dave ----

Yes for sure, I've been building a 4.0l jeep grand Cherokee for the better part of the past 7-8 years and normally use NAPA However my local store has staffing issues as of late and there are days that even if I order online to store I might get there and find they are closed. But yes very familiar with them.

Problem SOLVED!!! And man do I feel like a nincompoop!
So when I installed the one wire distributor I read the ignition simplification document, that by the way is perfect! What's not perfect was that I should have read through the instructions slowly and made sure I was comprehending it. I used the large yellow wire that can provide 12v as my keyed source, and ran my power from my solenoid when in fact I should have been using the white/lt.blue wire that had previously ran over to the coil.
I shorted a battery in this process, and I'm surprised I didn't do more damage ☠️
Thankfully I'm starting and running all with the key. And in the process I removed all the wiring that I will not be needing. More lessons taught to me by the 40 Year old truck. Lots and lots of fine tuning to do in the near future, but I feel like I won this battle.....or at least I'm telling my self I have 😂

Congrat's!  Glad you got it figured out.