So let's talk about dealer A/C for a moment

1986F150Six wrote

Dorsai wrote

Gary Lewis wrote

Matched pairs are important for applications like this.  I'd swap belts long before I tear into a clutch or compressor.

When I go back to NAPA to return my starter core, I'll ask that nice counter girl if she's got a matched pair.  What's the worst that can happen?

You could get slapped?

For asking for belts?  Wait...what are you thinking of?

(OK, I'll stop now.)

"ONE" can't chirp.
Both sheaves are tied together on both sides.
There is no way for one of a pair of belts to lose or gain ground on the other.

Well, that was an easy problem to solve.

My A/C compressor on July 9:



And on July 19:



I am absolutely baffled as to why and how that belt disappeared.  I distinctly recall checking all my belts when I was installing the new belt for the air pump, and it was (superficially at least) in excellent condition at that time.

Gary Lewis wrote

Please video that.  I gotta see it.  

https://www.canstockphoto.com/violence-at-office-5830229.html

That’s a best case scenario.  Working at a parts store she probably has to deal with guys being jerks all the time - I wouldn’t be surprised if she kept a tire iron under the counter...

You need to ask her if she'll step outside and whack your starter.***with that tire iron***

Funny how they stayed on for years but as soon as you 'fixed' that bracket....  foof! they're gone.

David - That's about what I expect.

Matthew - You've just proven Jim wrong.  It is entirely possible for two belts on the same pulleys to have different rotational speeds.  One of them just has to break.  

Dorsai wrote

Well, that was an easy problem to solve.

Amazing how effective a simple visual inspection can be, huh?

1986F150Six wrote

Belts can be purchased in factory matched pairs, for applications as this. I guess the tolerances are more closely matched. If one purchases the same part number in separate packages, one may be slightly longer.

We've requested matched V-belt sets for industrial applications before. It does matter. They're cut like slices of bread from a loaf, and every loaf is going to be a little bit different.

I don't believe I've ever had a vehicle with a double v-belt set up. Of all the vehicles I had that were old enough to have V-belts, they only ever had an alternator and a power steering pump that were belt driven.

My double sheave power steering pump seems to get along fine with mismatched belts.  *shrug

I still think this is related to Matthew's tightening the AC bracket to get rid of his rattle.

Anytime something unexpected happens, I always ask myself 'what did I touch that caused this'

Gentlemen,

While we're on the topic of dealer AC here....I was actually thinking about starting a thread on the topic after seeing the pictures of Emunders new truck with dealer AC...

My truck is a factory non-AC truck, so let me get this straight...

A factory AC truck had the evap core in the plastic housing inside the engine bay, and the heater core was inside the cab...do I have this correct?

And, a dealer installed AC truck started with a non-AC truck like mine, and located the evap core inside the cab, and was basically a stand alone system (and not integrated like a factory AC truck)?

So, factory AC had evap core in engine bay and heater core in the cab, and a dealer installed AC truck had the heater core in the engine bay and the evap core in the cab?

Or do I have it wrong?>..

The pics of Emunders new truck that showed the location of the dealer AC components gave me some new ideas about installing AC in my non-AC truck, so I just wanted to clarify the above before I ask even more questions;)>

I'm *pretty sure* that AC trucks had the heater core behind the glove box.
(this is one of the things where my ('87) truck differs from the book.

And that factory AC trucks had the evaporator in the plenum underhood.

But! as I don't have a Bullnose, let alone AC, I'm waiting to hear what others say.

I can tell you that if you swap everything over, you can use a later system.
I brought the whole dash, lines and plenum to Bill (85Lebaront2) from the 450 I parted here on the forum.

I think the term "dealer installed" is going to be an issue here.  That's 'cause there were several, if not many, different kits the dealers could install.

But let's start with the various HVAC systems.  There were essentially three from the factory:

Heat: This had no vents in the dash.

Hi-Lo Vent: Also called Deluxe Heat, this had vents/registers in the dash just like the Integral A/C system.

Integral A/C: As said, this had vents/registers in the dash from the factory.  And as I think someone else said, these registers weren't cut into the raised "bar" in the dash.  The bar actually stopped before getting to the register.

Now, on to "dealer installed".  The factory had a kit to be installed by the dealers, but I believe this kit only fit trucks that had the Hi-Lo Vent HVAC system.  That's because it already had the necessary plenum under the hood to take the evap core.

But, there were many other sources of A/C kits available to the dealers.  Some were stand-alone with vents below the dash.  Some had vents that were to be installed into holes cut into the dash - in the "bar" that was previously mentioned.

Again, there's a strong "I think" in this.  And, as yet, I can't prove it via the catalog.  So don't take this as gospel.

Looks like I'm wrong.  Here are the kits for 1980 F-Series trucks.  I'll check the other years when I get through playing Zingo with my granddaughter.  Note that "Comfort Vent" later appears to have been renamed to "Hi-Lo Vent".

Here's some more.  Note that this doesn't say anything about with or without "Comfort Vent" or "Hi-Lo Vent".  Does this mean that the dealers/parts managers knew that they'd only fit trucks with the vents in the dash?

I think that's the case, meaning that they only fit those with "Comfort Vent" or "Hi-Lo Vent" as there is only one evaporator part number for each application.  And there's no plenum replacement in the kit, so it has to use the existing plenum, which is different for the base heater vs the one with vents.

Anyway, once we have this hashed, maybe via a new thread, should this be a new page on the web site?

Gary Lewis wrote

Anyway, once we have this hashed, maybe via a new thread, should this be a new page on the web site?

I've never seen anything anywhere explaining the dealer A/C setup(s) - I think having a site page dedicated to it would be a valuable contribution to the community.

So take my truck as an example - 1980 F-150, 300 engine.  My passenger side vents are in the dash, cut into the bar.  So does that mean my truck was originally built as a non-comfort vent/hi-lo vent truck?

If that is the case, does that also mean my drivers side bezel was originally one of those without the vents on either side of the gauges?  It currently has very nice factory-style vents in it, so I assume that an E0TZ 19C872-A was swapped in?  My A/C controls are in this bezel, on the lower right where the little iPhone cubby is on other vehicles.  I'm not sure I understand what the 'not replaced' notation means, if this is the case.

EDIT: Perhaps 'not replaced' is a reference to the controls only?  I still have what I assume to be the original non-comfort vent slider controls in the center of the dash that play no role in A/C, only heat.

I'm sure I have all the various kits mentioned...and with a 52H calibration code, that includes the E0AZ 9A567-B fast idle kit?  I'm guessing that's the non-functional solenoid hanging off the side of my carburetor.

Fascinating stuff, thanks for digging it up.  Good luck with Zingo, I hope your granddaughter goes easy on you.

Rembrant wrote

1986F150Six wrote

Belts can be purchased in factory matched pairs, for applications as this. I guess the tolerances are more closely matched. If one purchases the same part number in separate packages, one may be slightly longer.

We've requested matched V-belt sets for industrial applications before. It does matter. They're cut like slices of bread from a loaf, and every loaf is going to be a little bit different.

I don't believe I've ever had a vehicle with a double v-belt set up. Of all the vehicles I had that were old enough to have V-belts, they only ever had an alternator and a power steering pump that were belt driven.

When I worked at the hospital any of our fans that used more than 1 belt used matched set, some fans had 5 or 6 belts and came as a mat un-cut belts.

On some of the smaller fan units we went with Gilmer belt drive setups and var-i-speed controllers.
The Gilmer belts (think blower belt) do not slip like a V belt does so all the energy going to the motor was sent to the fan wheel. At times you could cut back the speed of the motor or turn it off to save energy.
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

On some of the smaller fan units we went with Gilmer belt drive setups and var-i-speed controllers.
The Gilmer belts (think blower belt) do not slip like a V belt does so all the energy going to the motor was sent to the fan wheel. At times you could cut back the speed of the motor or turn it off to save energy.
Dave ----

<pedant mode>If belts are slipping you either have them adjusted wrong or the wrong one spec'd.

All power transmission systems ** have losses **.  It's a fact of thermodynamics.

First, no motor is 100% efficient.  746W in, does not make 1hp out.

There's also friction from the bearings supporting each sheave (or sprocket), and just flexing the rubber as it passes around each pulley creates heat in the belt.
That energy (lost as heat) has to come from somewhere.
And that 'somewhere' is the kinetic energy imparted by the motor.</pedant>

Just like the brakes in your truck don't 'create' heat.
Friction changes inertia into heat, shedding momentum energy from the system and slowing the truck.

Dorsai wrote

I've never seen anything anywhere explaining the dealer A/C setup(s) - I think having a site page dedicated to it would be a valuable contribution to the community.

So take my truck as an example - 1980 F-150, 300 engine.  My passenger side vents are in the dash, cut into the bar.  So does that mean my truck was originally built as a non-comfort vent/hi-lo vent truck?

If that is the case, does that also mean my drivers side bezel was originally one of those without the vents on either side of the gauges?  It currently has very nice factory-style vents in it, so I assume that an E0TZ 19C872-A was swapped in?  My A/C controls are in this bezel, on the lower right where the little iPhone cubby is on other vehicles.  I'm not sure I understand what the 'not replaced' notation means, if this is the case.

EDIT: Perhaps 'not replaced' is a reference to the controls only?  I still have what I assume to be the original non-comfort vent slider controls in the center of the dash that play no role in A/C, only heat.

I'm sure I have all the various kits mentioned...and with a 52H calibration code, that includes the E0AZ 9A567-B fast idle kit?  I'm guessing that's the non-functional solenoid hanging off the side of my carburetor.

Fascinating stuff, thanks for digging it up.  Good luck with Zingo, I hope your granddaughter goes easy on you.

Yes, I think your truck had the base level heater and they added the instrument bezel with vents/registers and cut the dash to put the passenger's side registers in.  And the fact that your controls are in the pocket ahead of the driver's right knee confirm that as if it had comfort vent they'd have swapped out the controls below the radio.

As for the "not replaced" notation, I believe that means that when they ran out there was no replacement part.

And I think you are right about the fast idle.

Hopefully I can get some time to work through all of this and create a page on it.  But it is a very time-consuming thing as it is tedious to look up all of the part numbers to understand what is in those kits.  And even then I don't think we'll fully understand what all the "dealer installed" A/C systems were made up of.