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Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

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Gary Lewis

Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

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I need some help, folks. My 2004 or newer SuperDuty springs, installed rear-end forward with a reverse shackle kit, clang on bumps if not "restrained", and I'd like a good and permanent solution - which is where you come in 'cause I haven't found one.

In the pic below, which is the current situation, you can see four things:

Gap: The red arrow points to a gap between the springs because the lower spring wraps loosely around the upper spring such that the gap continues up on top between the two springs. And w/o some restraint the lower spring is free to slap into the upper spring at its eye, making a whole bunch of noise on bumps.

Nylon Pad: The green arrow points out the nylon pads that came from the factory to allow the springs to move with respect to each other w/o making noise. Those pads were worn to nothing when I got the springs, but even replacing them did little to nothing to reduce the noise.

Spring Liner: The yellow arrow points to some spring liner material that I had left over from Dad's truck. I put it in with an industrial spray adhesive, but even it doesn't quieten the noise as the noise appears to come from the ends of the springs banging together.

Restraints: The blue arrow points to homemade restraints, aka hose clamps, that made a big difference in the noise. However, 268 miles of corrugated gravel road loosened them up enough that some of the noise came back. I probably got more than a full turn on the screws on all four of the clamps (2/side) after the trip, so .

So I'm looking for a better approach. I've done a lot of reading and I've found TSB 99-16-3, but that only applies to 1999 & 2000 SuperDuty trucks, and even then it addresses a squeak and not a clang. The fix specified in the TSB is to install kit #1C3Z-5B302-AA, and all of this as well as pics of the kit are discussed here: Squeak Squeaking Front Leaf Springs 1999 2000 Kit Insulator Repair Kit TSB 99-16-3.

But I don't think that is going to solve my problem and am looking for suggestions. Stronger clamps/restraints might work, but in reality the springs are supposed to be able to move independently so that's not the best approach. A rubber isolator just the right shape that would fill the gap?

Was there something there from the factory on the SuperDuty trucks? Or, maybe with that to the rear there's always pressure to keep things from clanging?

Help!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

grumpin

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Can you pry them apart and put more nylon pads in there?

And hopefully the pads will be tight enough to stay put.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

While you may not like the noise this is a truck, and this is how a properly designed progressive leaf spring works.

My thoughts go to something like Sugru or some other self curing silicone paste to be packed in the gap between the outer and inner shackle bushing eyes.

Maybe a product from Smooth-on?
They seem to sell a wide range of viscosities and cured durometer RTV's.
Maybe their PMC series, or Poyo silicone moulding paste?

They do have some super tough urethanes for conveyor belt repair, but those are liquids and cure too quickly for what you're trying to do.

You certainly don't want anything that is stiff enough to restrict much motion, nor soft enough that it will just squish out.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

In reply to this post by grumpin

Dane, I think Gary's complaint is the spring loop clacks against the bushing eye when the suspension loads or unloads.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary,

A set of proper leaf spring clamps would work better than hose clamps, wouldn't they? Like these below:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60884/10002/-1

https://dirtyhookerdiesel.com/i-14902715-dhd-600-417-dhd-leaf-spring-clamp-set-of-4-2001-present-duramax-diesel.html

I have regular leaf spring clamps on the back of both trucks...you know the spring shop rubber lined style that you just bend the tabs over? You could use those also...squeeze them tight with a C-clamp, bend the tabs, and tack them in place so they won't/can't loosen.

Just spit balling Gary...ha, I've never owned anything with leaf springs up front (Edit...not including Jeeps).

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Dane - Jim is right, my complaint is the almost constant rattle that is created by the loop hitting the eye. Any little bump causes it, and washboard roads make it sound like the front end is going to fall off. But the hose clamps help a whole bunch because they limit the ability of the lower spring, which is otherwise not constrained at all, from hitting the eye.

Jim - Interesting idea. Create a mold by positioning the springs, probably with a clamp around them to maximize the gap, put walls on the sides to prevent the stuff from running out, and pour the liquid in.

The PMC Series looks like it would do it, and more specifically PMC 770, 780, or 790. However, I'll need to do some reading to figure out which one, and what "Shore Hardness" I need. And I'll bet the hanger would keep the cured rubber in the joint.

I'm still struggling with how the "progressive" nature of the springs works. As the weight comes down on the spring does the gap at the very front get smaller?

If so you wouldn't want to prevent that from happening.

Thinking of another approach, what if I slid the spring liner around the curve so it took up some of the gap and then used a clamp? That way I wouldn't have the metal-to-metal clang but there would still be movement possible.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Rembrant

Cory - Thanks. The clamps were the next thing to think about. While the ones you listed would work, if tightened down they would prevent the springs from sliding with respect to each other, which I think is necessary as the load changes. And if they were left loose they'd rattle and might shift down the springs.

The "spring shop rubber lined style" might be the ticket. But by "tack them in place" I assume you meant put a piece of bar across the tabs and tack that in place so they couldn't open up?

I think the key is to provide enough restraint that the springs can't bang into each other but not so much that they cannot slide. And that takes just the right balance or the clamps themselves will rattle and move.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Gary Lewis wrote

The "spring shop rubber lined style" might be the ticket. But by "tack them in place" I assume you meant put a piece of bar across the tabs and tack that in place so they couldn't open up?

I mean like these clamps below Gary, this is what our local spring shops sell:

https://www.npdlink.com/product/clamp-leaf-spring/104805

I just meant to weld them to themselves...once you bend a tab over, you could squeeze it in place with a C-clamp, and tack it in place. You'd squeeze the clamp in place anyway...and hammer the tabs over normally, but take the extra step to weld the tabs down.

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

Yes! Those should work nicely!

I've actually not seen those before. They fit the bill in many ways, including having the rubber pads and being very adjustable.

The only issue is that those are for 2 1/2" springs and I think the SD springs are 3", but I'll confirm that this afternoon. (We are finishing the painting of the guest bath this afternoon, but I have to go to the shop to get the roller and pan, so can check then w/o getting caught.

) But I'm sure there are ones just like them for 3".

Here's the pic to remind me of what I'm looking for. And with the spring liner where it is the clamps won't be able to go anywhere.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Rembrant

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Gary,

I know they’re available in 3” wide. Couple good things…you can control how tight you clamp them, and you could always use thicker rubber pads in them if you wanted to.

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I don't need to measure. Just need to think, and since I'm almost at the bottom of my 2nd cup of Joe that is starting to get easier.

The spring liner was ordered for Dad's truck, which has 4wd and, therefore, 3" springs. Since the liner fit the SD springs perfectly they are 3" wide as well.

So, gotta find padded 3" wide spring clamps...

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Rembrant

So far I've found 2" and 2 1/2", but I'm sure you are right about the 3" variety.

And, you are right about the tightness. I don't want them so tight that they inhibit the sliding of the springs or that will stiffen the suspension. But tight enough to prevent vertical movement is what is needed.

As for the rubber pads, I suspect that any rubber in there will keep them from rattling. But it'll wear out over time due to the movement of the springs. So I may need to replace them some day, but that won't be all that difficult.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

Don't you just love searching for things on the internet? For instance, searching for "padded leaf spring rebound clip" found this result: Find Deals on Leaf Spring Rebound Clip in Womens Shops on Amazon.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

If it's the noise that bothers you, damp the noise, don't keep the spring from functioning as it was designed to.
I'm not going to say "They all do that", because we all know they all do that.

I'd have thought you'd have more appreciation for the dedicated engineers that planned these springs.
Obviously they know their job. And they know how best to design for its intended use in a truck.

But you don't want a truck. You want a unicorn.🦄

Maybe it would be best to find a way to fit coil springs to a solid 4WD front axle?

Or maybe you could just eliminate metal to metal contact while the spring is still free to function as it should?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

Yep, I want a unicorn. In fact, I have a unicorn. How many trucks have what Big Blue has? And as far as I'm concerned that's not bad.

As for "the dedicated engineers that planned these springs", I would have thought that reversing the springs would be an indication that I didn't want them to work exactly the way they were designed.

Having said that, I'm trying to make it so they can work as they were designed w/o making noise. It looks to me like the "loose end", meaning the loop of the bottom spring around the eye of the top spring, was intended to allow the two springs to move fore/aft with respect to each other as the load changes. So it looks to me like there are two ways to allow the springs to work - quietly:

Padding: Do something to fill the gap to ensure the springs cannot clang together. That would include pouring the gap full of something like the stuff from Smooth-on, but it would have to be the right density in order to allow the needed fore/aft movement w/o all of the up/down movement.

Clamping: I don't want to clamp the two together in a way that they cannot slide, which is what the u-bolt style clamps would do. But I do want to keep the loose end from banging into the eye. So perhaps a padded clamp that will hold the two springs together closely enough that the ends can't hit while still allowing them to slide would work.

I welcome your input on which way to go. Or if there's another approach that needs to be added to the list.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

I think you have a workhorse with a horn strapped to its head and a pair of fairy wings on its back.

I can't think of any other way, but I'm sure the clamps will be easier to try (and MUCH easier to undo if they bind or fail)

As for the rubber there are charts showing Shore compared to more relatable materials.
I think I had this discussion when talking to Matthew about using a brayer to roll paint onto tailgate lettering.
He said he had a grasp of hardness because of wheels he used with his robotics group.

I still think you'd be better off packing the gap with a paste than trying to pour catalyzed silicone in there.
I've made more than a few molds and know how it wants to escape.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

salans7

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

I took a look at my Pro-Comp SD lift springs, and they have nothing in between those two leaves, nor is there anything around the curve. But I noticed my springs seem to be much tighter than yours as I can't see any daylight through them. But I don't know if that's because I'm sans engine or if you took that photo with the springs unloaded.

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

Jim - I've not made any molds so will take your word for packing rather than pouring. And I certainly agree with you that the clamps will be easier to try, and remove for that matter, and probably less expensive as well. So I think that is the best approach.

And I'm pretty sure the clamps won't have any noticeable effect on the ride as I put the hose clamps on and could tell no difference in ride, but a huge reduction in noise. In fact, even with the hose clamps loosened after the GOAT there was no difference in ride and really little, if any, difference in noise. You just need enough restraint to keep the ends from clanging together.

Shaun - That pic was taken with the truck on the lift, so full droop. But obviously the clamps were on there. Without the clamps it is easy to move the end of the spring while the truck is on the lift, and you can make it clang like a bell.

Apparently my springs are "factory" springs 'cause my way of getting the old tip isolator out and a new one in was exactly like the instructions from TSB 99-16-3:

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Raise the vehicle so that the front axle is allowed to hang freely suspended (lift vehicle by frame).
Use a prybar to open gap between two (2) leaves.
CAUTION: PRIOR TO STEP 3, IT MAY BE NECESSARY TO REDUCE THE HEIGHT OF THE CENTER BARBED NUB WHICH PROTRUDES THROUGH THE LEAF. CAUTION SHOULD BE TAKEN NOT TO NICK OR GOUGE INTO THE METAL OF THE LEAF.
Pry out worn tip isolator.
Using pliers to hold the replacement spring tip isolator on the locator flange and maintaining force on the prybar to keep two (2) leaves separate, position the isolator so that center barbed nub fits into the hole of the lower leaf and the two (2) locator flanges are oriented outboard of the spring.
Remove prybar and allow leaves to close on each other.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

salans7

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Mine are a completely different animal, as there are four leaves total and a traditional riveted clamp around all four. I surely hope that I don't run into the same issue, but I'm also of the same opinion that Jim carries regarding these trucks and their noisiness.

Gary Lewis

Re: Silence The SuperDuty Springs!

Administrator

Do you know what code of springs you have? Must be heavier than mine.

As for the noise, if yours aren't as far apart as mine you shouldn't have as much noise. I'm guessing mine have 3/8" of gap, and when you hit a bump and the spring travels that far and hits it is loud. While I realize it is a truck, if there is something simple that can be done to minimize the noise I want to do it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile