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Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

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351FUN

Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Truck is an 83 F250 with a Blueprint 306 and factory 4 speed. The starter went out the other day and I replaced it with the exact same powermaster that was on it. Now it runs great but makes a sound like metal slipping against itself when I have the clutch pedal depressed. It goes into gear fine and moves around no problem, just has a noise I don't want to ignore. Any ideas would be great.

mat in tn

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

is it starting the engine? is it sounding like it is staying engaged to the engine once it starts?
if it is only when the clutch pedal is pushed down once the engine is running then it has to be within the clutch assembly. any coincidence with the starter must be just that.

351FUN

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

I'll have to get back to you on those, its on the side of the road half a mile from the house because it still can't stay running. When I was trying to restart it I thought I heard a scraping noise too. The starter came with a shim that I didn't need last time, I may need to try it with that.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

351FUN wrote

Now it runs great

351FUN wrote

its on the side of the road half a mile from the house because it still can't stay running

You say "i replaced it with the exact same Powermaster that was on it"
Are you sure you didn't get a starter intended for an automatic with a flexplate?

Because there is definitely a difference in engagement depth.
A starter for a manual will not reliably reach a flexplate ring gear, and a starter for an automatic will not fully disengage a flywheel.
This means when the engine starts the flywheel will over drive the starter.

Honestly, I've never seen shims included with a Ford starter.
GM.. sure. They often need shimming because they attach radially.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

351FUN

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

I ordered the same one off summit from the order email from years ago. I can't guarantee they sent the right one but it looked identical.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

I didn't mean to suggest you ordered the wrong starter.
There's always a possibility the wrong label was put on the box or the starter itself ended up on the wrong packaging line.

I'm simply saying that if you did get an automatic starter it would explain why it would grind and stay engaged after the engine was running.

Did the first starter come with shims?

The only difference would be how far the Bendix throws out (and retracts)
If you still have the old one perhaps you could compare them?

Have you checked the crankshaft for end float?
Maybe putting pressure on the clutch is pushing the whole assembly forward into the starter gear?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

mat in tn

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

that would mean a lot of wear on the thrust bearing for sure. it seems the most likely is a poor fitting starter. in the shop I would be tempted to unplug / jump the clutch safety switch and try starting it in neutral without touching the clutch pedal and listening. I'm not suggesting that it be left that way. testing only! but it seems to have started at the change of starters so stay on that point. certainly, compare to the old as much as you can. you might even see if the local parts store has one on the shelf for your truck to compare also

351FUN

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

I have both starters and it sounds like unfortunately I'll have to take it off again to check everything. This was my first time trying long tube headers and it will also be my last.

Also, these are supposed to have a neutral start switch? That's news to me.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by mat in tn

I'm just trying to understand what is meant by "metal scraping noise when the clutch is depressed" (throw out bearing?)
Why that would leave the truck stuck on the road, and how that could cause noise from the starter.

This seems to be a re-manned engine.
While we'd all like to think it was assembled well, if the center main journal got wiped on the side it would allow the flywheel to move forward.

( Deleted for adding to the confusion)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

I think the clutch switch appeared in '84. I know that Dad's truck didn't have one and one doesn't show in the '81 EVTM. But it does show in the '85 EVTM. And IIRC, it showed first in '84 so an '83 probably doesn't have one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

'83 would still be a mechanical clutch for all but the 6.9 and 7.5, no??

Could you crank these trucks in gear?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

351FUN

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

It being stuck is completely unrelated, its been having issues staying running which is its own thread. Its a blueprint 306 that didn't have this issue with the old starter. It makes no noise starting with the clutch pedal released and in neutral, that's how I usually start it.

351FUN

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

I forgot I took a video of it, that would have been helpful in the first post.

The noise lessened greatly after a minute or so. I can do some tests tomorrow though. And yeah its a mechanical clutch.

Gary Lewis

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Yes, 83 should be mechanical on a 351W and you should be able to crank it in gear.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by 351FUN

Your 5 second YouTube video does seem like the Z-bar or linkage needs some grease.

I can't say that I've ever heard a throwout bearing sound quite like that.
Usually a throwout will rasp or hiss and then you can hear it spinning down in speed when you release the clutch.
The clip you recorded is definitely straight metal on metal.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gsmblue

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

In reply to this post by 351FUN

351FUN wrote

This was my first time trying long tube headers and it will also be my last.

I feel your pain. Had to pull the headers on my Bronco to change the starter, the new starter from Autozone was way smaller and I think would just clear the headers..

Sorry, no useful input on your actual issue..

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Administrator

In reply to this post by 351FUN

"Hard to start when hot" is classic headers cooking the starter.

Have you tried installing a heat shield?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

mat in tn

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

my 83 f100 did not have a switch but I don't remember the years and configurations that did or did not. I mostly build autos and they have neutral safety. but if it does not make any noise while just starting in neutral then I don't see how it can be the starter.

351FUN

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

Yeah its silent when starting in neutral. It only makes noise when the clutch pedal is pushed in. Its just strange because I'd never heard a peep out of it before the starter went, so its one hell of a coincidence if it's unrelated.

mat in tn

Re: Scraping noise when pushing clutch after starter swap.

how about when you let off the clutch after it starts? does it go away then?