SBF V-Belt to Serpentine Drive Swap - Questions

myrl883 wrote

You have to change the water pump, but not the timing cover. Fan and clutch need to be from reverse rotation vehicle as well.

Hey Myrl, are you running a universal timing cover like the one linked below?

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50300/10002/-1

Otherwise, I don't see how a reverse rotation pump will work on a timing cover for a standard rotation pump. I have a Dorman 635-102 timing cover, which is for standard rotation. The ports are significantly different between the two rotation pumps.

One solution I have found...I think, is to install a water pump from a 1987 Mustang GT 5.0, with the round ports in the pump backing plate. Apparently it does not care what rotation timing cover it is installed on.



Only issue with that is I thought the Mustang pumps were shorter, but I've read where guys have used these for F-series serpentine swaps.

Something I have to deal with as part of this serpentine swap (combined with a carb swap) is where to mount my ignition coil. Currently it is in the factory location on top of the intake manifold, just right of center between the distributor and the carburetor. It is almost touching the choke housing on the Holley.



When I swap the new Summit carb on in a few weeks, I am going to need to find a new home for the coil.



I guess I could temporarily mount it on the front of the drivers side cylinder head, like below...



But I am planning on a serpentine drive swap, which will remove the front of the cylinder head as a potential coil installation location.

So I started poking around looking at pictures to find out where the coil is located on the 1990 5.0 F150 that I scavenged the serpentine drive from, and I see it is the square/box style coil, and it is mounted at the back of the left (drivers side) cylinder head, on top of the valve cover.

So my first question is, can I run one of these 1990 style coils with my factory DSII ignition module? Any issues there?

And second, does anybody know if I can install one of these 1987-1991 style coil brackets on top of my 1984 valve cover? Or did those trucks have a special valve cover that this bracket attached to?

I guess I'll have to go out to the junkyard and have a look at it, but figured if one of you guys knew how it mounted, maybe it would save me a trip.

Yes, you can run one of the square coils with the DS-II - for a few miles.  But from my understanding they have a lower impedance and will eventually kill the DS-II because it'll pull too much current.

IIRC, the later systems had gone to TFI with that coil.  So you need one of the standard round coils.  But I don't have a good suggestion for where to put it.

Sorry.

Yes, sir - that's the pump to use! When Ford put serpentine drives on Mustangs in 1984, they continued using the old timing cover with a mechanical fuel pump. So, just tell your friendly parts guy that you need a water pump for your Mustang. I forgot to put that in my post. Sorry if it confused anyone...

My timing cover is from Ford Racing. It looks just like the one in your Jeg's link. It even has the original E7PE casting number on it. It's a standard replacement part that Ford technically discontinued, when in reality they only sell it through the racing division now.

myrl883 wrote

Yes, sir - that's the pump to use! When Ford put serpentine drives on Mustangs in 1984, they continued using the old timing cover with a mechanical fuel pump. So, just tell your friendly parts guy that you need a water pump for your Mustang. I forgot to put that in my post. Sorry if it confused anyone...

My timing cover is from Ford Racing. It looks just like the one in your Jeg's link. It even has the original E7PE casting number on it. It's a standard replacement part that Ford technically discontinued, when in reality they only sell it through the racing division now.

Its a pricy timing cover but it looks nice, I ended up getting one for my 306 (I need to start calling it what it is which is a 308) cause the dorman timing cover I got I just heard too many issues with not being machined properly and in many instances the crank seal isnt centered and gets wiped out by the balancer in a few hundred miles.

Rembrant wrote

The back story here is that I'm thinking about aftermarket EFI, and that got me thinking that maybe my original 40amp alternator would have to go...which got me thinking of doing a serpentine swap...lol, so I'm just trying to make sense of it all. They are all topics that I have largely ignored, so I'm as green as grass on all of the above.

I mounted my coil in the same place it was found on the 1984 - 1987 5.8L H.O. trucks - behind the air compressor bracket:




But why all the trouble for a serpentine belt swap?

My carburetor, 1G alternator, and V-belts all work great and haven't given me any trouble at all.

I don't get it:  you have said many times that your truck runs great and you don't regret the way you built it.  So why all of this swapping around?  Why not enjoy your truck?  

LARIAT 85 wrote

I mounted my coil in the same place it was found on the 1984 - 1987 5.8L H.O. trucks - behind the air compressor bracket.

Oh ya, I know where the factory coil locations are (at least 3 that I know of on the 302), but I can't use any of them with the Summit carb and serpentine belt system.

LARIAT 85 wrote

But why all the trouble for a serpentine belt swap?

My carburetor, 1G alternator, and V-belts all work great and haven't given me any trouble at all.

I don't get it:  you have said many times that your truck runs great and you don't regret the way you built it.  So why all of this swapping around?  Why not enjoy your truck?

Haha, Rick if only we understood what motivates other people to do things, eh? The world would be a simpler place. I don't get why people lower trucks so that the frame almost sits on the ground. I don't get things like 20" wheels either, but people do it all the time.

Unfortunately, I'm just not the type of guy that can just have a shiny truck as a hobby. I enjoy building, rebuilding, upgrading and updating, etc. That's my hobby. I wish I was content to just drive the truck and wax and polish it, seriously...I really do wish I was that guy. I need to fidget with stuff, and wrench on stuff.

My original 1G 40amp alternator works great! However, it is 37 years old and it will fail one of these days. I figured, along with some other things, that I might do the 3G upgrade and swap in a serpentine system at the same time to modernize things a bit.

There's a big difference in availability where I live compared to you guys in the states. You can probably get a 1G alternator at your local parts store, or at the very worst get one overnight for free shipping. Most items like this are not available locally for me, and I have no choice but to order from the US, and for probably $35 shipping I can get that 1G alternator in a 7 to 10 days, or I can pay $115 in air freight and get it in 3 days.

Anyway, I do love my little truck, but when it comes to modifications and whatnot, none of really has to make any sense....lol.

I see classics at shows and our weekly meets all the time where the owners have invested twice as much money as the vehicle is worth, and that doesn't make any sense either, but it happens all the time;).

Rembrant wrote

Unfortunately, I'm just not the type of guy that can just have a shiny truck as a hobby. I enjoy building, rebuilding, upgrading and updating, etc. That's my hobby. I wish I was content to just drive the truck and wax and polish it, seriously...I really do wish I was that guy. I need to fidget with stuff, and wrench on stuff.

That's fair.  

I guess I *am* that guy who is satisfied with the work I put in my truck, and now I am content with just driving it and enjoying it for what it is, not for what it is not.  However, I am always open to modifying my truck if it also makes it simpler or more reliable - but doesn't require a whole lot of other changes to make it work. That is when you start to lose reliability.

That being said, I am planning to replace my stock-style master cylinder with that of a 1987+ style with a see-through reservoir.  So I am not totally against modifications.  I just wouldn't want to do anything too radical to change the personality of my truck.  For example, pushing the gas pedal down to start the engine was always a part of that, and I wouldn't think of changing to EFI.  But Lucille was my father's old truck, and it has been in the family for almost 30 years, so maybe that is why I am sentimental like that.  I restored Lucille because she meant something to me and because I wanted to keep my father's truck the way I always remembered it.  If I wanted a more modern truck, I would buy a more modern truck.

Rembrant wrote

There's a big difference in availability where I live compared to you guys in the states. You can probably get a 1G alternator at your local parts store, or at the very worst get one overnight for free shipping. Most items like this are not available locally for me, and I have no choice but to order from the US, and for probably $35 shipping I can get that 1G alternator in a 7 to 10 days, or I can pay $115 in air freight and get it in 3 days.

And that's fair.  I think it is wise to "stock up" on the parts that you think you may need in the near future for when they may need replacement.  That is the beauty of owning an older vehicle that has long been paid for - you can afford to have your own replacement parts ready to go.  In my own stash for Lucille, I lots of NOS parts in boxes in my shop for when they are needed.  I do not want to rely on cheap aftermarket parts if I can help it.  have a spare carburetor, ignition module, voltage regulator, coil, PCV valve, radiator hoses and various other parts specific to 1980 - 1986 trucks ready to go if I need them.  I even started collecting parts for my 1998 Jeep in that I have all replacement [Mopar] sensors in boxes ready to go when mine may happen to go out.

I am a big fan of your truck, Rembrandt. Don't fall into a rabbit hole just to "modernize" things for the sake of being modern.  I think you will end up disappointed.