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Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

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TheGeneral

Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Hi there,

I am hoping to get some advice on possible engine flush/oil change/additives based on my current situation. I have read through the threads re: oil type so first I will explain what I've got going on.

1985 f150 4.9, California--almost all new smog equipment, new catalytic converter, rebuilt carb, plugs at .046, new distributor, recent cap/rotor, 10W30 (Lots of other new stuff but these are related to my question).

She is running rougher and rougher, stinkier and stinkier, with new tick (lifters?) and there is a TON of carbon residue on my brand new tailpipe. 😭😭

I am going to dive into it this week and here is my rough plan. What I need help with is what combination of fluids I need based on having both lifter tick and a new catalytic, as I THINK if I understand correctly, that the 15W40 or other zinc-containing oils are good/better for the flat tappets, but potentially damaging to the catalytics? They were not cheap👀👀

I plan to:
Replace PCV valve
Replace spark plugs (copper core) and gap at factory .044
Flush engine with _____________????
Change oil to _________________???? 10W40?? So I have zinc but it's not too thick to get up the lifters?? Or a better 10W30 with ZDDP? I am on northern California coast so generally never below freezing but may occasionally drive into the mountains.

Find someone who actually knows how to properly time it

___________???? Do I have to take my carb apart or something to clean it, it seems filthy for just being rebuilt this year.

Anything else?
She runs strong and has a lot of power but I am really having a hard time getting her to run clean and it's pretty frustrating as I have put SO much time and energy into her this year and I am barely getting 12 MPH. I don't want to ruin the engine running so poorly. It must be filthy inside,.but I am super nervous thinking about flushing it and ending up even worse off.

Any recommendations or warnings would be incredibly helpful.

Thanks everyone for reading this far!

Bell

Gary Lewis

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

Bell - I'm not a carb guru, much less a YFA guru, but what you are saying about how rough and stinky it is I'm guessing that you are running really rich. And one think that can do that is the accelerator pump in that carb.

I'm not sure how best to check that, but before you start flushing the engine and all the other things I think you need to do some more investigation.

I'm going to tag Bill/85lebaront2 to see what suggestions he has because he has forgotten more than I'll ever know about carbs.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

In reply to this post by TheGeneral

Ok let's take these one at a time. First, lifter tick, are you sure it is lifter(s) or might it be a leaking exhaust (manifold to head) gasket? It may also be the mixture control solenoid on the carburetor.

Rough running, stinky exhaust, lots of carbon in the tailpipe. First thing I always check on a Carter YFA, is for loose screws (not the owner, we all have them for liking 30+ year old trucks) the ones that hold the throttle body to the float bowl. These are the three (occasionally four) that are installed from the bottom holding the aluminum (silver) part to the pot metal (gold) part. The harmonic vibration of the in-line six will cause them to loosen and the weight of the air cleaner doesn't help. This is why Ford used a brace from the driver's side of the head to the air cleaner can. If the screws are loose, with the air cleaner off, you will find you can move the main body of the carburetor, if so, it is rebuild time. The other item is the design of the carburetor internally, there is a diaphragm about 1" across that does double duty. The bottom of it is connected internally to manifold vacuum to pull it down, lowering the metering rod to lean the main mixture. The top side is the accelerator pump and as it is pulled up by the linkage internally, it provides a shot of gas when the throttle is opened with the engine running.

Your truck has a feedback system for mixture control, but even with it inoperable it can't get but so rich. The mixture control solenoid affects the air bleeds for the main and idle circuits and is the cylindrical "can" on the valve cover side of the carburetor attached to the top section of the carburetor. It has a two wire plug on the bottom end of it.

I hope I haven't overloaded you with information. Good luck with it!

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

In reply to this post by TheGeneral

Bill/85lebaront2:

I replaced the mixture control solenoid a while back as well as having the exhaust manifold replaced (it was supposed to be both intake and exhaust but there was a miscommunication 🤐...I did forget to check the carb bolts again (I did several months ago) so I will do that first thing. I'll hold off on the flush but I will go ahead with the oil change...

As for the ticking sound I really have no idea, I mean it increases when I give it gas..
probably in over my head LOL.

Gary Lewis

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Thanks, Bill. You know far more about it than I do.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

i second that carb advice. loose throttle plate screws are a quirk and will definitely make it run rough but normally by causing a vacuum leak. you are seeing a lot of soot so its running rich. double check choke operation. as far as a tick, look closely at exhaust especially the most recent work done to it. if it's a leak in the pipes it will be more of a roar noise but if it's on a certain single cyl it will be a ticking sound. these long manifold combinations have been known to warp a little over time and temp

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Ok will do. Definitely not a roar. I trust the muffler shop far more than I trust the shop that did the exhaust manifold. I have done a lot of the stuff myself but I get intimidated easily with larger projects that tend to involve broken bolts. My fear is that I will have to redo the entire exhaust manifold to also do the intake and the gasket between them, I still can't believe they went ahead and only did the exhaust instead of insisting I wait until I had an intake....I only learned afterwards about the gasket in between. Well heck though, if I have to do it myself next time I will buck up and do it!

I should add that the dieseling has gotten worse--I got it to all but stop after I replaced the valve cover gasket, and I retightened everything a couple times after a few driving intervals, but those bolts are all snug as a bug now, so I do suspect a vacuum leak somewhere else may be part of the culprit.

I will report back soon!

1986F150Six

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

TheGeneral wrote

I should add that the dieseling has gotten worse--I got it to all but stop after I replaced the valve cover gasket, and I retightened everything a couple times after a few driving intervals, but those bolts are all snug as a bug now, so I do suspect a vacuum leak somewhere else may be part of the culprit.

I will report back soon!

Attached is a link to testing for vacuum leaks on a 1984 4.9L:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1478167-vacuum-leak-detection-effective-and-inexpensive.html

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

In reply to this post by TheGeneral

So an update for anyone who was kind enough to post info:

Turns out that the intake to exhaust gasket is leaking as I feared, but also the...throttle pin? at the base of my recently rebuilt Carter carb needs to be rebushed and should have been done when I had the carb rebuilt but was not. So, combined that's about $1k of wasted repairs by highly regarded 'experts' that I should have just bucked up and learned to do myself. Now that I have more time on my hands I suppose I will have to. I also bought new catalytic converters in order to pass smog, so now even if I wanted to convert the carb/emissions setup to a more efficient system (certainly considering) it would mean I wasted all that money as well. I swear I should have figured out a way to register in another state from the get-go.

oof.

Gary Lewis

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

The gasket is something that you should be able to do. It just takes normal tools and patience.

The carb might not be. Not only do you need to be able to drill the base of the carb through from one side, which requires a drill press, you then need to press the bushings in and then ream them to ensure the hole is aligned side-to-side.

Instead you should consider buying a new carb.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Well I am going to do the gasket myself, but after discussing the carb with the guy who rebuilt it (Classic Carburetors, Grants Pass) he said that he bench tested my carb and it ran beautifully and that he absolutely would have rebushed it if necessary as that is part of what he looks for, and also told me that all carbs would have a tiny bit of leak present when sprayed. He thinks I was getting a bit of a "story" from the guy who looked at my truck. He suggested I do the gasket (and get the 2 manifold resurfaced) and see how much improvement I see before messing with the carb, but that if it seemed to still be a problem he would re-check the throttle shaft and ream/bush if necessary for free.

I watched a great video on how to do it but I don't even have a bench, much less a bench vise for proper drilling

I am pretty nervous about this, not gonna lie. I hope I can get everything lined up properly, torqued properly, etc.

I am hoping to use the Permatex Aviation grade gasket sealant since I already have it, but I am not sure about temp rating so if anyone has a better suggestion let me know.

mat in tn

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

if the carb rebuilder is willing to review or even redo his work then that is "stepping up". plain and simple. but it is certainly fair for him to ask that other leaks are eliminated first. and he very well may be saving you time and money not to mention the headache. it's just as likely to be a vacuum leak at the head / intake. as to the carb throttle plate shaft it is true that it cannot be perfectly seal and still move freely. all throttles have a tolerable amount of leak by through the plates and the shaft too. that gets "tuned" in and when the throttle is opened air will come through the easier path. the Venturia. I'm not saying that carbs don't wear out. they certainly do. but accurate diagnosing is the most important point here. I'm in Tennessee and diagnosing is the biggest part of what I do. are you anywhere close that i may be able to see it in person?

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

I am all the way on the Northern California Coast so that would be great but not an option haha! I have settled on a Remflex single gasket with no sealant which is thick enough to address any pitting or flange issues, yet compresses well enough around nooks and crannies to not to be *too* thick. Everyone who has used them on the 4.9 that I can find seem to have had great success eliminating difficult leaks, often after multiple tries with other gasket/sealer combo. Ordered today...

Gary Lewis

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

You may find you need just a bit of gasket sealer to hold the gasket in place while you install it. Not to seal it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

mat in tn

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

are you planning to separate the exhaust from the intake while its off? if so, get that gasket also. dont tighten them together more than snug until the intake and exhaust are torqued. no need in anything fighting you from getting the intake fully sealed

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Mat, everything is now out--I got a lot of it unbuttoned but ended up paying for help from a mobile mechanic as I couldn't get the metal pipe between carb base and manifold loose. Manifolds came out separately from each other. Problem is, I was so focused on getting everything clean and painted while I had a break in the weather today, that I did not even notice that THE INTAKE IS NOT STRAIGHT AT ALL

I don't know exactly how warped it has to be to not seat properly, not sure if I should go ahead and try?? It seemed like the ports were all touching the tarp, but it just looks...bent outta shape.

I am unsure how to proceed..

Gary Lewis

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

I'm not a pro, but I would take a straight edge to the ports. It needs to be pretty close to straight where the ports are to go up against the engine.

If you have feeler gauges check to see how much warp there is to it and let us know.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

TheGeneral

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Ok, I will find a straight edge in the morning.

FuzzFace2

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

I'm not a pro, but I would take a straight edge to the ports. It needs to be pretty close to straight where the ports are to go up against the engine.

If you have feeler gauges check to see how much warp there is to it and let us know.

It is one thing to check if the sealing edge is flat to seal but another that the ports on the intake line up to the ports on the head.
If you get the 2 end ports to line up the center ports may be to high.
If you get the center ports to line up the 2 end ports may be to low.

I would take that straight edge and check the head at the top or bottom of the ports or both to see if they are straight across then do the same on the intake.

Think before I even did that I would take the gasket and lay it across the intake and see if it lines up as it may show the ports to high or low too.
Good luck.
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

Gary Lewis

Re: Running rich, lifter tick, flush/oil additives?

Administrator

Good idea to use the gasket, Dave.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile