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Rosebud

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Gary Lewis

Re: Rosebud

Administrator

Chad - Jim/ArdWrknTrk says "Progress is good!" And it doesn't have to be lots of progress. Two steps forward and one back is still going in the right direction.

On the frame, I fear it is cracked as that wasn't uncommon. Dad's truck's frame was cracked there. Check out this TSB on it: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/97-03-10-frame-creakingpopping.html

On the carb's throttle shaft, look to see if the throttle plates are binding. If they've been removed and replaced they might be in a position where they bind in the carb's bore and then the throttle will be hard to open. If so, you might be able to loosen the screws holding the throttle plates to the throttle shaft and re-position them so they don't bind. But be careful as the screws should be staked on the back side and the heads will break off if you go very far.

As for the power steering, can you use Teflon tape on the threads?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Operator1

Re: Rosebud

You are correct. I do see a crack on the inside of the frame, where the gearbox is mounted. it also looks like the rivet that holds the front of the crossmember to the frame rail is either broken, or has oblonged its hole.

Thanks for the tip on the throttle plates. That sounds like a good possibility. I have looked high and low for my old bucket of 2150 parts, and all I have found is a parts list.

As much as it pains me to put tape on a flared fitting, I'm not taking it off the table. The gearbox seems to work well enough, so I am willing to make some compromises to stop the leak.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Operator1

Re: Rosebud

I almost forgot, I took her down the road for the first time. The transmission actually shifted! That is a big step forward for me.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Gary Lewis

Re: Rosebud

Administrator

In reply to this post by Operator1

Bummer! Ok, the "inside of the frame" is actually the "frame liner" in Ford-speak. And, it is replaceable, as outlined here: TSB's/Brakes Steering/Suspension/Wheels/Steering Gear Frame Liner. I found one NOS for Big Blue, although I don't yet know if I'll have to use it.

But, the liner was certainly cracked on Dad's truck and the Huck fastener was rattly-loose. If you go to the first post in Dad's Truck Build thread, go down to the document, and then go to Page 12 you'll see a discussion of that. And, there are links in there to what I actually did, which was written up on FTE. And while that isn't the recommended way to fix it, I think it will work. "Will" as the truck is not yet back in service.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Rosebud

Administrator

In reply to this post by Operator1

Congrat's!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Operator1

Re: Rosebud

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

On the axles, the 9" was still in use in '86, although not as frequently used as earlier.

I did check the tag on the Front axle and it said 3.50. First time I've seen that gear in a TTB.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Operator1

Re: Rosebud

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

As for the power steering, can you use Teflon tape on the threads?

I wrapped that fitting up in the thick yellow pipe tape today. Tighten, steer, repeat, until I finally saw no more seepage. Ended up with it a lot tighter than I expected.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Gary Lewis

Re: Rosebud

Administrator

Glad you got it sorted. I hate leaks!

As for the 3.50, lots of the trucks with a 9" rear also had 3.50 fronts.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Operator1

I'm finally back

I haven't forgotten the Bullnose, but my Jeep got jealous of all the time I was spending with it. Having appeased the latest round of Jeep problems, it's time to get back into Rosebud.

Pulled the engine to change the oil pan, gaskets, seals, and whatever else I find.

Tore into it and found the bores to be 4.004" more or less. They could stand to have a bunch of grapes run through them. Pulled a main cap, looks like I will be buying some bearings.

Removed the steering box to assess the cracking situation.

I'm gonna come up with some sort of reinforcement to stiffen that area, I surely don't think just welding up the crack is going to be enough. The steering shaft was also really sloppy at the rag joint.
I'm gonna try to clean up the wiring and plumbing under the hood while I'm in there.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Operator1

Re: I'm finally back

Well, I guess the pictures are optimized for lying down.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Gary Lewis

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

In reply to this post by Operator1

Many forums, like this one, don't have the smarts to read the metadata in the file and rotate the image. So you have to do that in an editing app before posting.

Grapes run through it? What does that mean?

On the crack, that's huge. I found a small one on Dad's truck, and how I dealt with that is shown in this thread on FTE. However, I'm not saying that's the way to do it. I've not even had Dad's truck on the road yet, so don't know that my fix will hold.

However, my nephew, a mechanical engineer and a serious mechanic, tells me that the best way to prevent it from happening again after you grind out and weld up the cracks is to ream the bolt holes in the frame out, install heaving wall tubing that has an ID of the diameter of the bolts, and just long enough to prevent the box from touching the frame. In other words, the tube needs to be maybe 1/8" longer than the "width" of the frame.

What causes the crack is a poor design wherein the hard edge of the box is directly against the frame, which focuses all of the energy in one spot - a "hot spot". So if you hold the box slightly off the frame you take away the hot spot.

But it has to be heavy wall tubing, and it has to be a good fit with the bolts and welded properly to the frame. So it isn't a simple task. And I've not done it - yet.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: I'm finally back

Gary Lewis wrote

Grapes run through it? What does that mean?

I’m guessing cylinder hone.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

ArdWrknTrk

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary,
I think I made that suggestion back on FTE as well. *humblebrag...

Ideally, if the box couldn't shift at all, softening or radiusing the edge of the steering box where it hits the frame may stave off this happening.
But the bolts are not reamed to fit, and the frame flexes letting the bolts lose clamping pressure.
This is the result of flex, and not being a fixed joint.

Doing composite work we always try to eliminate sharp changes is section or square corners.
Also look at computer generated FEA 3D parts (like the Chiron brake calipers) they always look organic -like a mangrove root, or blood vessels- because load paths are optimized and stress risers reduced or eliminated.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by grumpin

X2

We call them dingle berries.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim - Sorry, it was a long time ago and I hardly remember yesterday. But you probably did suggest that approach way back then.

And, as you say, softening/radiusing the steering box would help. Those things are terribly crisp on the edge and with the kind of forces being generated in the steering it is easy to see how the frame would finally crack.

Grapes = hone? Ok, I can see that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Operator1

Re: I'm finally back

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Yep hone, dingle berries, dingle balls, bunch of grapes, people call them all kinds of stuff. The cylinder walls look like they’ve probably seen some ether. They aren’t scarred, but like it’s been run dry.

A popular method to stiffen the steering box in the Jeep world is a brace running from the passenger side frame to the bottom of the gear box, clamped around the area where the sector shaft exits. I was thinking of some version of that, but anything can happen when I get a day off to work on it again. The thick tubes through the frame do sound like a better mounting method, but it seems like that would just move the stress point without some additional stiffening to go along with it. I can assure you that whatever I end up with will be some jackleg trash, but hopefully strong trash.

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

ArdWrknTrk

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

Welding the tubes in prevents the rail from flexing and collapsing.
Then you are trying to torque the whole box and not just the liner.

I've seen some jackleg crap under Bullnose hoods.
How about a tree branch wedged between clutch master cylinder and radiator support, to overcome a torn firewall?

It was like this for MONTHS!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

Another helpful thing would be to bed the steering box in steel filled epoxy, like you would bed a rifle action and sometimes the barrel.

One of the biggest problems is point contact.
There's no way the steering box is touching in more than a couple of spots.

Here is Gary's thread.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1307036-dads-frame-and-suspension.html

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Operator1

Re: I'm finally back

ArdWrknTrk wrote

One of the biggest problems is point contact.
There's no way the steering box is touching in more than a couple of spots.

That is how it appears to me, it looks like the box only touches the frame around the bolt holes. Mine already has tubes in the frame. They are just between the frame rail and liner though, not all the way through like Gary described. It also looks like someone has welded on this crack before, but only a little spot at the bottom.

I promise not to brace it up with a tree branch

-Chad
1986 F150 currently undergoing body reassignment

Gary Lewis

Re: I'm finally back

Administrator

The "tubes" are probably part of the piece inside the frame. They were on mine. They are just curled pieces of the liner's metal.

The tubes I spoke of would be HD tubing that just fits the bolts, and is welded to the frame on both the inside and outside.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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