Recommendations for EFI fuel system

Thanks, Jim.  Might have to get some, just in case.

But I'm yet-again surprised with the Chinese/English translation.  I would think they'd hire someone that really knows English so we would be presented with things like:

Product Properties:Under double newton power,Self Locking,Can't be separated after button up.

Product Packing: Coming with a transparent bag,100 pcs all in the bag,Not Happy with jewelry?

But I guess this makes it interesting?  

It is odd.
Almost like some sellers are playing dumb.
I got that once on eBay, where the seller in Shenzhen just ran the clock out on Paypal's window of contention.
As soon as I was powerless there was no problem with communication.

I think a lot more Chinese speak fluent english than Americans speak Mandarin.
And Google translate works pretty well, if it has some context.
But that seems like a literal textbook translation.

I'm confident that a lot more Chinese speak English than the other way 'round.  Our daughter teaches English to Chinese children, as do other people we know, so there is a clamoring for it over there.  And so many of them have learned that she said some are now moving on to Spanish.

So I'm at a loss to explain why we get such poor translations in our adverts.  I can understand why some eBay sellers want you to think they are illiterate so you think you can take advantage of them.  But there's no way to take advantage of advertisers when buying from Amazon.  And being able to tell from the advert that something has come from China is a turn OFF to me.  So why not spend just a little bit and have someone that knows the language vet the advert?  

Why didnt you reuse the old hanger from the sending unit?

The 85/86 sender I used for a 5.0 coyote swap in a '82 F150 at work we reused the stock 85/86 sender pulled the lift pump off and installed a walbro pump in the saddle with a short piece of rubber EFI hose with EFI hose clamps like OE.

That is the same thing I am going to do with my truck on the sniper EFI, throw a 255 LPH Walbro pump into the OE hanger on a '85-86 sending unit with EFI hose clamps and a 11mm inlet hydramat from Holley unless I can figure out a way of attaching home made baffles to the fuel tank without welding.

I didn’t reuse the old hanger because my truck is a carbed 84 so the hanger does not have a return. I needed a return for the EFI but wanted the level sender to be the same so I used an 85-86 unit.

Here’s a couple of pictures of the final installation:

I understand you used a 85/86 unit why did you cut the cradle off the OE 85/86 unit is my question.  Ive installed walbro pumps using the OE hanger with no need to modify it.

Use the OE rubber grommet for the 85/86 sender but instead of using the OE lift pump install a walbro high pressure pump in its place.  Worse case you might have to trim a little off the hardline that is above the pump for clearance but that is about the worse youd have to do.

One thing I will warn you, I learned the hard way on my 1985 LeBaron convertible. The worm clamps will (a) cut into the hose and (b) work loose. I was lucky, it never caught fire but was constantly leaking at the clamped joints. I found some very nice clamps on Amazon. These are for the 5/16" line Chrysler uses: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040CU0HM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Those are fuel injection hose clamps that is what you should use on in tank fuel pumps if you dont use the crimp fittings.

It is what I will be using on mine as they are reuseable and they provide a better grip without tearing the hose.

Rusty, considering the pressure the Chrysler turbo engines run (55 static, rising on mine to 70 under full boost) any leak can get messy and with the #1 exhaust port under the connection to the fuel rail, potentially a flaming mess.

85lebaront2 wrote

Rusty, considering the pressure the Chrysler turbo engines run (55 static, rising on mine to 70 under full boost) any leak can get messy and with the #1 exhaust port under the connection to the fuel rail, potentially a flaming mess.

Correct, it is a big reason why I am going metal hardline along the frame I think I might be able to snap the Inline Tube 3/8" stainless steel fuel line into the OE clips the 5/16" line is snapped into.  From there the barb on the fuel pump side will be cut off and the hardline will have a -6 AN tube nut and sleeve installed and crimped on my new AN flaring die set for my Eastwood bench flare tool.  The short piece of rubber line at the engine will go from where the fuel pump would normally be bolted to this new 3/8" flared hardline using -6 male AN hose ends, preferably one that you can reassemble but I think that short of a fuel hose run might be a problem with the required nylon braided hose being how stiff it is.  But my personal goal is to have as much metal hardline as possible under the hood and along the driverside header and Y pipe on back to the pressure regulator that I will be mounting on the frame rail.  Only extensive use of hose will be from the pressure regulator to the fuel tank sending unit only because I cant come up with a way to make a hardline connection with female quick disconnects.  The outlet side of the Corvette fuel filter/pressure regulator I will make a hardline connection as I can rent locally the male hardline flare tool for the male quick disconnect.  But only thing I could do would be flare some left over annealed stainless 3/8 hardline from plumbing the sniper on the engine and use the female quick disconnects and attach it to the hardline and form it around the fuel tank in a OE fashion and then use rubber from the frame behind the fuel tank to the sending unit.  Thankfully with quick disconnect I should be able to reach up on top and squeeze the aftermarket Earls quick disconnect fittings to disconnect them before I drop the tank if I have to.

I just cant picture how I could do the hardline from the filter/regulator back to the tank till I am under the truck with the old fuel tank out and the 85/86 fuel tank on hand and mock it up to see how I can go about it.  I just know for a OE factory quality build I really want to limit how much rubber, the quick and easy way would be like we do at work and run the earls vapor guard hose from the tank to the sniper like Holley wants but with the fuel tank out and the engine out I should be able to get the OE 5/16" hardline disconnected from the frame and pulled out of the way and slip the larger 3/8" line in place after I chop it down to size to fit my modified application.  Hopefully I can find a hole already in the frame that I can either use a self taper body bolt to afix the fuel filter/regulator to or one that I can pass a bolt/washer/nut through as I dont want to go drilling into my frame if I dont have to.

Im really looking forward to doing the plumbing and cant wait to post what I come up with on here for plumbing to make the sniper stealth look like a plain old carb and not EFI.  I also look forward to seeing how long that holley fuel mat lasts, what I seen online it seems for an average vehicle you should get some 65,000 miles or 6 years out of it.  I hope its longer than that as I dont want to go dropping my tank every 6 years to replace that mat especially considering how expensive it is.  Only reason why I am personally trying to figure out how I could put some baffling around the low sump area of the 85/86 tank that wouldnt require welding.  Im afraid of burning a hole through the bottom of the tank and I also dont want to cut the top of the tank open myself.  The guy I was going to have to do it wants too much money for fabrication so Im thinking about some kind of brazing where I can go through the large fuel pump/sending unit opening with a propane torch to heat the area and use a magnet to hold it in place till I can get it brazed into place.  I just dont know if there is a better option such as epoxy or something that would be fuel resistant E85 resistant (wont run it but be nice to know E10 wont effect it) and something that can be strong enough to resist sloshing fuel from breaking it loose.  If I can do this it would effectively make the holley fuel mat pointless for me and I can run just the plain old stock pick up sock that lasts 150,000 - 200,000 miles with no problem.

Amazing pic's Chad!

To get lighting and focus like that inside the tank.

Looks like your pump on a stick setup is going to work out just fine.  

Rusty,
I don't know how it's possible to use the 85/86 hanger in a 2" tank hole without cutting off the pump mount portion if you want to use a Walbro 255 or similar sized pump. I simply can't make the math work no matter how I sort it. Are you aware of a version of the Walbro 255 that does not have a 39mm body?

The issue with the stock pump and hanger is that the pump has an outlet and tube at the bottom of the pump, so the fuel pickup tube runs alongside the pump. In order to use a Walbro, you'd have to plumb a fuel hose from the top of the pump down to the pickup inlet at the side of the pump, which means you now have 2 additional parts of your pickup running up and down beside the body of your pump.

So just take the simplest scenario so we don't have to get into trig. The diameter of 2 inches is equal to 50.8mm. Assuming we are dealing with 1 dimension for simplicity, that leaves 11.8 mm between the body of the pump and the edge of the tank opening. The metal pick-up tube with the inlet next to to the pump is 9.5mm wide. So I'm left with 2.3 mm of linear distance to accomodate the hose and hose clamp (which is going to be BOTH between the pickup hose and the pump and on the other side of the pickup). So I need to find a hose and clamp combo that is less than 1.15 mm in wall thickness, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist. Now remember that I have to account for another hose alongside the pump, clamps to hold the pump to the pickup and the actual plate that the pump mounts to which is 1mm thick. If I can't make it work in my fictitious, idealized thought experiment, how on Earth could you possibly do that in reality.

Forgive my incredulity, but I don't see how it's possible to fit a Walbro 255 to an 85/86 hanger without modifying the hanger, at least in a way similar to what I did, and still be able to get it into a tank with a 2" hole. I looked online and couldn't find anyone who had been able to do that with anything but the later hangers that use the larger hole.

I'm from Kansas so show me.

Littlebeefy wrote

Rusty,
I don't know how it's possible to use the 85/86 hanger in a 2" tank hole without cutting off the pump mount portion if you want to use a Walbro 255 or similar sized pump. I simply can't make the math work no matter how I sort it. Are you aware of a version of the Walbro 255 that does not have a 39mm body?

The issue with the stock pump and hanger is that the pump has an outlet and tube at the bottom of the pump, so the fuel pickup tube runs alongside the pump. In order to use a Walbro, you'd have to plumb a fuel hose from the top of the pump down to the pickup inlet at the side of the pump, which means you now have 2 additional parts of your pickup running up and down beside the body of your pump.

So just take the simplest scenario so we don't have to get into trig. The diameter of 2 inches is equal to 50.8mm. Assuming we are dealing with 1 dimension for simplicity, that leaves 11.8 mm between the body of the pump and the edge of the tank opening. The metal pick-up tube with the inlet next to to the pump is 9.5mm wide. So I'm left with 2.3 mm of linear distance to accomodate the hose and hose clamp (which is going to be BOTH between the pickup hose and the pump and on the other side of the pickup). So I need to find a hose and clamp combo that is less than 1.15 mm in wall thickness, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist. Now remember that I have to account for another hose alongside the pump, clamps to hold the pump to the pickup and the actual plate that the pump mounts to which is 1mm thick. If I can't make it work in my fictitious, idealized thought experiment, how on Earth could you possibly do that in reality.

Forgive my incredulity, but I don't see how it's possible to fit a Walbro 255 to an 85/86 hanger without modifying the hanger, at least in a way similar to what I did, and still be able to get it into a tank with a 2" hole. I looked online and couldn't find anyone who had been able to do that with anything but the later hangers that use the larger hole.

I'm from Kansas so show me.

A Walbro 255lph fuel pump is not much bigger than a OE stock in tank electric fuel pump.

Now in my case im looking at the GSS342BX which is a GSS342 series of pump the BX is for a 96 Mustang by application while non BX is just your generic universal.  The mustang variant I found can be purchased for less via rock auto than the non BX.

First this is a NOS sending unit that I got the photo off ebay that shows the pump and the pump cradle.  This is a low pressure low volume lift pump.


This here is the walbro line up of in tank high pressure fuel pumps.  One I will be using is the top GSS342 with the 11mm inlet which will allow the use of the holley fuel mat.


And this is the dimensions of the Walbro GSS342 series of fuel pump which is 255 LPH.


As you can see the pump has a max PSI of 124, is 255 lph fuel flow output is 11mm or 3/8", inlet is 11mm, the diameter of the pump is 40mm and the length is 120 mm.

It will fit in the OE hanger just fine.  You may or may not have to cut the fuel pressure feed line above the pump for clearance but on the 85/86 sender I used on a '82 F150 I installed a 5.0 coyote in at work I didnt have to cut the OE sender and a foxbody mustang high volume high pressure Walbro pump fit just fine without modifications to the cradle.  You may feel safer with having a clamp to hold the pump to the support rod but I have never used one as the hose and the rubber isolating through the cradle I found was enough to hold the pump stable.

So tell me do you think a 40mm wide Walbro 255 lph fuel pump is too big to fit through the hold in the OE hanger?  The pump is just over 1 1/2" wide.  Pump length is almost 4 3/4" long.  I dont know the OE lift pump dimensions and you wont find one listed online I dont think as OE replacement pumps dont give dimensions just application they fit as they are not universal but vehicle specific.

I honestly have thrown aftermarket universal or foxbody electric fuel pumps in Fords using the OE ford hangers with no problem on numerous EFI conversions I have done where an aftermarket fuel tank isnt avaliable with a universal fuel pump included.

I dont have a photo of the ones Ive done as I never thought of taking one but if you are interested when I do my EFI conversion on my truck after I finish my engine build Ill gladly photograph the conversion and how I do it utilizing the OE hanger using an aftermarket high pressure high volume Walbro pump.

Rusty,
There’s a fundamental difference in the design of the 33 gallon Bronco tank meaning I couldn’t do what you’re proposing. You may be able to do it with a much shallower tank in a truck. I think the difference in the hangers is important. The OEM pump setup is just different.

Littlebeefy wrote

Rusty,
There’s a fundamental difference in the design of the 33 gallon Bronco tank meaning I couldn’t do what you’re proposing. You may be able to do it with a much shallower tank in a truck. I think the difference in the hangers is important. The OEM pump setup is just different.

Thought we were talking truck not Bronco, I looked up the sender for the Bronco and that is a weird ass sender.  Wonder if you could use a rear tank truck sender instead.

How's it ever going to reach the bottom?

The kit that comes with the 38 gallon tank to replace a 33 gallon tank on a Bronco has extenders for the float and pump.  Pretty much the way Chad did it but with different materials.

I think Chad has the regular 33 gallon Bronco tank. (at least that's my interpretation of his reply to Rusty)

Yep.  I was just saying that even the big boys having you extending things that way when the tank is deeper.

.  My literal brain.....