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New engine - but is it getting fuel?

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sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Thanks for your work, Ray! You too, Gary and Bill!

I pulled the tank pump just to give it a look-see (easily accessible due to my hatcbh built into the wooden bed). The pump is only a couple of years old. Couldn't see anything unusual there, but when I put it back in I no longer had a fuel gauge reading of full. In fact it read empty. That tells me the float was likely stuck in the full position.

I am befuddled by how the fuel gauge gave me accurate readings prior to pulling my old engine and now, zippo!

I know that tends to happen when one pulls things apart, but this really boggles me since I didn't mess with any of the wiring that leads to the tank. I think it is possible since there was fuel in the lines before I removed my old engine, the HP pump was working alone and the in-tank pump never worked except to give me an accurate fuel gauge reading.

I'm looking at page 104. That references a 2 tank system. I'm not seeing the switch you are referring to.

On page 103, the single tank setup, I see no switch there except for the inertia switch. I played with that a little but couldn't seem to get it to go anything. I was expecting to get kind of a reaction like you'd get on a GFI electrical switch.

Page 100 shows the fuel tank selector switch. Is that the 6 pin plug you are referring to? How the heck do you get to it. And, since my fuel gauge worked, could that selector switch be my problem?

Sorry for the long post. Just trying hard to figure this thing out.

Can't do any more today as my body is quitting on me. But I can read your reply when you have time.

Thanks a bunch!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

I was able to get mine from RockAuto in Dorman's repair parts line.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

In reply to this post by sgauvry

Steve, if you look at what I posted earlier, that was the 1985 EFI pump system with the single tank. The inertia switch, which I take it you found, is typically on the heater ducting right side of center. I doubt your problem is the inertia switch, if it was bad, the high pressure pump would not run. The pumps are wired in parallel like headlights.

The problem must exist in the wiring to and from the in-tank unit. For reference in looking at the diagrams C is a connector and S is a splice. I have seen some very funky splices after 30+ years, considering I am dealing with similar vintage Chrysler stuff. At least Ford, (a) numbers connectors and splices and (b) sticks to pretty much the same circuit numbers and colors (or should it be colours) from year to year. Does the 1985 EVTM show locations? I know the 1986 one is real good about pictures of locations.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

In reply to this post by sgauvry

I'm referring to the greyed reference box labelled "fuel tank selector switch terminals" directly below the header line on p.104. (left side). Sorry, but my screenshot skills don't seem to cut it here.

The switch, of course is in the blue shaded box labelled "fuel tank selector switch". The two pole switch handles the fuel pump voltage on one pole and the fuel level gauge signal on the other.

Of course, a single tank truck does not have or need the switch, but the circuits are still in the cab wiring harness, hence the jumper plug. The drawing on p.103 for single tank is somewhat vague about the routing, but the dual tank drawing does seem to show a connection at C127. The circuit is #787 (PK/BK). I think the connections in the cab assume the front tank and the circuit changes to #786 (R) at the switch. If the wire at your tank is PK/BK like the single tank drawing, I would assume the single tank chassis harness continues the wire color for #787. If the full dual tank wiring was in place, the chassis harness would have a R wire at the tank, (#786) and an unused connector at the rear tank location.

Still, all this was unmolested when you took the engine out and it is somewhat baffling that the tank pump now does not run.

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Ray-

I think our pages are different. Here's a pic of mine.

I don't see the grey-shaded box you are referring to. However, what I see confirms your explanation of the circuit and wiring.

Page 103, the one I've been referencing, indicates the pk/bk h wire running from the fuel pump relay down to just past C120 and then continues south to the in-line fuel pump, but also veers left a runs to the in-tank fuel pump. Although the diagram doesn't show any symbols indicating it is a splice, it must be. This diagram is more to what my system looks like.

But, there are four wires that run to the in-tank fuel pump connector. One is the p/bl H wire. There are three other wires and those match the wire colors for the two tank system.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

Ray, from looking at my diagrams, C120 is the connection going to the pumps, if there are dual tanks, it shows a pigtail between C119 (inertia switch) and C120 (pumps feed) that goes back to the tank selector switch and from there to the tank units. What I am seeing, and the 1985.5 may have actually been different because it shows the 6 port motorized valve like the hot fuel package 460s used.

The 1986 shows essentially the exact same system for a single tank, only the resistance wire is not used on the F-series. On the dual tank 1986 EFI the tank selector switch is shown as an added section in the harness with one end being at C120, the other becomes C127 to feed the high pressure pump. The selector switch then powers either of the in-tank pumps and connects the respective gauge sender at the same time.

Does the 1985 EVTM give locations, or are you using the 1986 one?

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Guys - Just saw the setup for the 7.5 engine.

That's the diagram my system follows, except there's a high pressure pump in mine and the C120 connector doesn't show! Weird...

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Working off the link to the 86 EVTM on this site. Same one Gary quoted earlier.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/electric-fuel-pump-control.html

Looks like there are some differences ?

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

Yes, and I am not sure there wasn't an update to the 1985 EVTM as I don't ever recall seeing a 1985.5 without either the 4 or 6 port reservoir or reservoir tank selector valve unit right behind the high pressure pump.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Gents -
Found one wiring problem so far. Connector 127, located on the drivers side near the firewall, illustrated on page 97, Figure 1, is faulty. The y/w wire had come completely disconnected from the connecter and the black ground wire nearly disconnected. The y/w wire runs to the fuel gauge and tank sending unit, as does the black wire, explaining why my fuel gauge would not give me a reading any longer. I disconnected the battery, exposed a little wire and shoved it into the connector, reconnected the battery and it did in fact give me a fuel level report.

I'll be resoldering wires to the connector once I purchase a new soldering iron. Mine has gone bad on me for some reason, after only using it a few times. Cheapo Chinese crapola! At worse, I'll bypass the connector and join the wires together because there's incredibly little wire and space to work with, so it won't be that easily accomplished.

I can only hope the wire fix for the fuel sending unit is that simple to repair.

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

Steve, that would also explain no in-tank pump, the black wire is the ground for both sender and pump. How is the PK/BK H one? That is the in-tank pump power. Sounds like you are closing in on it!

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

This post was updated on .

Thanks!

Presently, I'm going to fix Connector 127. Believe it or not, I was able to find a new one at advance auto and it comes with wires attached. It will actually be easier for me to solder the wires of a new connector to the existing black and yellow/w wire rather than try to solder the yellow and black wires into the old connector due to limited wire and difficult to work in space. The new connector should be here in a few days.

Regarding the pink/bk H wire, Connector 121 is adjacent to Connector 127. I have concerns about disconnecting the connectors there, but will do so as gingerly as I can. That connection leads down to the external HP pump, and then runs to the tank. About 1/4 of the way, there is a branch-off close to another connector that runs to the tranny safety switch. From Connector 121 all the way to that safety switch connector and beyond, the wires are heavily wrapped in tape, and that tranny safety switch connector is wrapped to the fuel pump wires. I need to strip the tape away from the whole thing to see what I'm dealing with. Can't do it today - my body won't work well today and it's only 32 outside.

Thanks for getting back to me!

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

Sounds good sir! You are dealing with 33 year old wiring, same thing I am running into on my Chrysler convertible (it's actually 32 years old). I am finding splices that are corroded, tape that has petrified etc.

This is all compounded by Chryslers totally illogical wire color and circuit numbering system. I will be going through a diagram and see a color with* next to it, means "may not be this color", they also love to go into a bunch splice one color and come out with two or three different ones.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

In reply to this post by sgauvry

That's progress, and as Jim says, progress is good.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Have to say that Ford consistency in color coding, connector numbers, etc. is very helpful.

Good luck with your project.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

I would post pictures, but the owner might get upset since this is a Ford Bullnose site. The gentleman I was doing his late father's Chevstang for has pretty well finished up the floors. I am waiting for him to mail the one good, one soso door check so I can take the three I salvaged from the 1988 Reliant donor vehicle and have four good ones. Then I will take the front fenders over with the door checks as they are a royal PITA to do with the fenders on and we will attach them and he will straighten the fenders where something hit the right one.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

I know "the owner" and he's a laid-back kind of guy. Go for it. But, maybe not in Steve's thread in case he doesn't want them in here?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

No skin off my back. Post those pics!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

85lebaront2

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

Administrator

I'll put them in projects as that's what it is.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

sgauvry

Re: New engine - but is it getting fuel?

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

Ray - I would like to revisit this post of yours.

NotEnoughTrucks wrote

On the dual tank trucks, there is a switch in with the heater controls, on single tank trucks, the switch is omitted, but the connector still exists near the heater control. There is a description of the 6 pin plug in the top corner of p.104 in the EVTM, but no references to connector number.

The plug that replaces the switch has two jumpers on it. There are two rows of 3 pins. The middle position will be jumpered to either the front or rear tank wiring. If the plug is missing, your in tank pump will not run and the fuel gauge will read empty. This is also a handy place to check for voltage to your in tank pump although it would not rule out a problem between the plug and the tank itself.

To begin - I am not certain if this truck started out as a single tank truck or dual. Close to the in-tank fuel pump connector is another connected set of wires (All taped up - possibly spliced) that run to the back of the truck. It runs to my tail lights/back up light. This is somewhat consistent with other wiring that is taped to the fuel pump wiring and runs to the tranny safety switch.

Second - The connector to the fuel pump has 4 wires: orange, pink/bk H, yellow/white stripe, and black (really faded) or brown. What is odd is that the connector wire colors exactly match the 7.5 single tank configuration as seen on page 102 of the EVTM. Not sure if this is significant but wanted to mention it.

Third - I also looked for the 6 pin plug you referenced. I found the plug mounted near the bottom of the right side of the heater controls. It is a grey plug with six terminals, but there are no jumpers on those terminals. Am I to do something with this plug, or just leave it alone?

Fourth - You mentioned that plug is a "handy place to check for voltage to your in tank pump". How would I do that?

Lastly - How could I bypass the pink/bl H wire temporarily to test if the the pump will work, and get some fuel in the line?

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

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