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New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

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Gary Lewis

New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

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Dane/Grumpin purchased the 1986 Engine/Emissions Diagnosis book and sent it to me for scanning. I finally got started on it today and put up about 1/3 of it - 14 sections.

But I need everyone's help in figuring out just where to put it. Currently it is last in the menu so it'll be easy for you to find and check out.

Also, I'm planning to have each section on separate pages so the information will be found by search engines. But I'd also like your input on the best way to host this information.

Jim - Please check and see if it works for you as there is info on the main page - and I suspect you can't get to it.

Last, I plan to put hyperlinks on the Contents page, as shown below. Those two pages are part of the documentation on the main/top page, but they are kind of hidden. Where would be the best place to put them?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

I can navigate through "1986 Engine & Emissions Diagnosis" and the drop-down.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

StpaulF100

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary-

Thanks for the information and making this site more awesome!!!

1980 f100 custom 4.9l c6 2.75 rear gears.

Gary Lewis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

Thanks, guys. Glad it works for you. I'll try to get the rest of it scanned in the next few days. But could still use some help on where to put it.

However, I'm thinking of placing it in Documentation/Emissions. Thoughts?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

Nice work Dane and Gary.

I know the main shop manual is split and placed on the relevant pages as tabs but this one doesn't seem so cut and dry.

What about a sub menu for the shop manuals in their entirety by year setup like this one is where you have a menu item for each section?
Then if beneficial, a section could be linked to either as a hyperlink or a tab showing the same content - like you are currently doing but instead of the speed control section living on a tab on the Speed Control page it would just be referenced from the manual section.

That make sense?

Of course some (a lot) of the content won't change between some years so it would be dealer's choice on which year to reference...

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

Gary Lewis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

Scott - That's an interesting idea. But it wouldn't have to be limited to the shop manual. On the other hand, that could get onerous to put together.

We have FSM sections all over the site. And pages from the MPC. And..... But it would be nice to be able to see where things are.

However, the FSM sections are frequently on tabs within a page and I don't think there's a way to provide a link to the specific tab.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

kramttocs

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

Onerous for sure and may be too much to redo what is there already.
Because I am actually thinking in reverse of that - so instead of the FSM documents living where they at currently on the various tabs, they would live under the shop manual section.
The tab would then be the one to reference the shop manual section(page) and display it.
Or I guess it could reference the word doc itself but I like the whole page that way if you add some helpful notes outside the word doc, they would show up on the tabs as well.

I know scanning it and organizing it is the hard part but I, and I am sure others, would be happy to send you the manuals I have to complete the years if this daunting task is undertaken.

On that subject, how do you scan these in? Do you scan a page at a time or unbind the manuals (or use the 3 ring versions) and stick them in an auto feed scanner?

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio

ctubutis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Where is the Like button? I had pieces of this on Photobucket once upon a time, O'll hafta remember this is here, thanks!

grumpin

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Nice work Gary! That’s a lot of manual to scan!

I looked through a couple of pages, looks good to me.

Edit: where to put it? My first thought is the emissions section, but that is because I know that manual exists now.

I might have gone to the engine section first. But then again, I’ve looked in the wrong area for things!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

In reply to this post by kramttocs

Chris - The like button was obtrusive so we gave it up some time ago.

As for you having bits of this in Photobucket, I'm willing to bet those were pictures. These are pdf's that have been OCR'd. (Chris knows, probably better than I, but for the rest of you that means these documents can be searched for specific text. Or the text can be copied and pasted, as I just did for Andre on the front hub info.)

Dane - I think Emissions is the right place. But I don't want the document to get lost there, so I'm liking Scott's idea about a master contents document.

Scott - I have a sheet-feed scanner and scan in gray scale at 600 dpi. I scanned those 354 pages in just about two hours yesterday, but more of the time was spent OCR'ing rather than scanning.

But that means I have to have individual sheets. I gave up trying to scan bound documents years ago as it was SLOW and gave poor results. (Having said that, I agreed yesterday to scan a bound '96 owners manual that Bill is sending.) Luckily this document is in a 3-ring binder so is easy to take apart. But I have cut up my '81 and '85 FSM's to scan the sections.

Which gets me to the question of placing whole FSM's, or other documents, on the site. Frankly, I'm afraid of getting sued due to copyright issues. There are companies that have paid Ford to create several of the documents in CD form, and if we have a way for someone to download a document for free then they might sue.

It has seemed safer to put sections of the FSM scattered across the site rather than to put the whole document in one place. (No, I'd not put one complete file on, but individual files for each section in the same fashion I've done for the '86 Engine & Emissions document.) Given that, I dunno.

I'd like everyone's thoughts, please.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

rcarlisle

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Ford used to be one of the easiest to grant licenses. Being this is the "authority" site on this gen of trucks, would it be worth sending a letter to inquire about licenses to store docs on here? I really don't know if that is even practical. But if you were "authorized", that really increases your credibility. It's impossible to inquire about these trucks without a link to this site showing up, so it's possible that someone at Ford has already seen this site.

Randy

Mt. Airy, NC 81 F-150 STYLESIDE regular cab 2wd. 302 Auto Zone crate. 5 spd M5od-R2

85lebaront2

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

What I found when my site was up a number of years ago, as long as it isn't proprietary information or trade secrets and you properly cite the ownership of the information you are generally ok. I had a boilerplate copyright for each of GM, Ford and Chrysler stating the information was copyright xxx at the head of each piece of information.

A lot of what I had was Chrysler wiring (what a nightmare).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

In reply to this post by rcarlisle

Rule #1. Never attract attention.
Rule #2 It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

Randy - I agree with Jim. I'd much rather ask for forgiveness than ask for dispensation and be told no.

Bill - That's good to know. On the documents I've posted I've not taken any copyright info off. But looking at the new emissions document it appears that the only part that bears the copyright info is the first few pages. So to do that I'd need to add that in the footer of each page.

Jim - As said, I agree. Which is one of the reasons I've not put major documents out in their entirety. If what others are selling, like the shop manual, is spread all over creation then it doesn't look like you are making available their livelyhood.

But, speaking of "making available", this Wikipedia article has a lot to say on that subject. And to help you find what I think is meaningful in this situation you need to go down about 2/3 of the way to a section that starts with:

Primary infringement liability
The fundamental question, "what use can a P2P file-sharing network's customers make of the software and of copyrighted materials without violating copyright law", has no answer at this time, as there has been almost no dispositive decision-making on the subject.

In that section you'll find a summary of several court cases where the RIAA took on people who both posted copyrighted material on the internet and those who downloaded it. And from what I can tell the courts have determined that making the material available is not illegal. It is the downloading thereof that is illegal.

I'd appreciate it if several of you would read that article and then post your understandings.

Also, there's a mention of the Electronic Freedom Foundation. They apparently were founded because of issues like this. But I can't find an answer to our fundamental question on their site, so have sent them an email asking for clarification.

Last, my son is a lawyer and I've asked him his opinion on this.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ctubutis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

My personal suspicion is that Ford already knows of you.

What I know from FTE is that, in general, Ford is supportive of enthusiast sites.

I would never try and re-publish a full volume of printed text onto the web, only bits & pieces. There is something called Fair Use that gets you allows you certain rights, up to a point.

My opinion. :)

Gary Lewis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

Chris - I wouldn't be surprised that Ford knows about us. And it only makes sense that they would encourage sites like ours since they help enthusiasts keep their products running. So it isn't Ford that might call "foul". It would be someone who is selling the documents with a license from Ford.

As for the whole document vs bits and pieces, since our intent is to provide people with a place to read the documentation online rather than to download it, it only makes sense to put it out in sizes that can be pulled up in short order. But the portion I've scanned in so far of the emissions document, which I'm guessing is about 1/3 of it, are 180 MB in size. So the whole document is likely to be over 500 MB in size if it were in one file, and people would give up before it loaded. And then finding what they want in the document would be difficult.

Considering "fair use", the page at More Information on Fair Use is helpful. And reading that tells me that since we don't profit from the publication we have a leg up. And, not publishing the whole of the document is also helpful.

So I'm feeling better and better about this. But do want to hear from the Electronic Freedom Foundation and, for reference, here's the note I sent to them:

I run a website for 1980 - 86 Ford pickup enthusiasts called garysgaragemahal, aka the Bullnose Forum. On that site I've put many Ford documents regarding those trucks in an effort to provide documentation to others that share my appreciation for these trucks. However the intention is not to distribute the documents but to make them available to view. Having said that, it is possible to download them if you know what you are doing.

No one has challenged what I'm doing in the several years the site has been up, but I do wonder what the legalities are of doing so. Having read the Wikipedia article about file sharing I found out about the EFF and perused your site thinking you'd have a ready answer to the question. However, I've not found it even though it is surely there, somewhere.

Can you direct me to something that answers the question? Or, can you provide some guidance?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

In reply to this post by ctubutis

Ford definitely has their ear to the ground, Chris.
I said a few weeks ago, with regard to my tailgate stickers, that it's a game of whack-a-mole on eBay.

The listing I bought from was down a day or two after I bought them, and I couldn't even leave feedback.
That's why I said that these people with a vinyl cutter only have to sell DORF tailgate stickers in order to stay clear of Ford's IP.

The Blue Oval and distinctive script is another case entirely.
I think The Motor Company is going after that in all cases. (as is their right)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

They made RJM take down the fuel injection site. It was originally "Ford Fuel Injection.com" it was changed to "Old Fuel Injection.com" and it was still taken down.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

I thought that was when Ryan just dropped off the face of the earth....?

It really is a shame when a giant corporation is SO concerned about 30 (or more!) year old documentation.
I guess they figure if you are fixing your own vehicle they are missing a new sale and their dealer network is missing out on service hours?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Administrator

I suspect there is more to the story than we know. Like using "Ford" in a way they didn't like.

Anyway, we will have to be careful.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Primary infringement liabilityThe fundamental question, "what use can a P2P file-sharing network's customers make of the software and of copyrighted materials without violating copyright law", has no answer at this time, as there has been almost no dispositive decision-making on the subject.

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Re: New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis

Primary infringement liability
The fundamental question, "what use can a P2P file-sharing network's customers make of the software and of copyrighted materials without violating copyright law", has no answer at this time, as there has been almost no dispositive decision-making on the subject.