Need some schooling ;)

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Need some schooling ;)

FuzzFace2
Ok a buddy has 2 lets call them 80 to 86 short bed trucks. Both are 2 wheel trucks.
We cant see the VIN on the dash on either truck. 1 has the newer glass and it covers the VIN, the other has dirt over it and cant get down there to clean it.
I have asked him to give me the VIN numbers off the titles so I know what year the 2 trucks are, what motor, transmissions, rear axle & ratios they started life with.

The parts truck has the newer "F100" badges on the fenders.
Cant read the cert sticker in the door jamb and dirty VIN on dash.
The under hood sticker has 3.8 information? Looks like the radiator support & 1 fender was replaced.
Looks to be a factory 300/auto. not a feed back system as I don't see the hole in the firewall for the wires.
Now what is close to that area is where the speed control wires & vacuum hose comes out. The speed control box looks to be bolted to the lower part of the dash where the feed back box would be.
Truck has a 9" rear axle.

The project truck has no cert sticker in door jamb, glass blocks VIN on dash. No fender badges
Radiator sticker also has 3.8/auto but think the support has been replaced also. The truck has a 302/auto that I sure was dropped in it as the oil pan (front sump) is sitting on the cross member.
This truck did have a feed back system as the hole in firewall is there with cut wires seen and the box bolted to the lower part of the dash inside.
This truck is blue metal flake but has a red interior? Dome light has map lights in it, holding up what is left of the head liner. Truck has a 8.8 rear axle.

So the school part:
Any way to tell years with out a VIN?
The HVAC control, both have AC, is different between them.
On a 302 motored truck is the oil pan a front or rear sump?
What frame mounts did the 302 trucks use and are they the same as other size motors used in our trucks?
How many different blue metal flake colors were use in our trucks. It looks to be the same blue as the 2 or 3 of our members trucks.
If the truck has electric locks did it also have the pin type rod sticking out the top of the door panel too?
That is all I can think of at this time.

As always thanks for any information you can give.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Rembrant
FuzzFace2 wrote
The parts truck has the newer "F100" badges on the fenders.
Well, that narrows that particular truck down to being a 1982-1983 only, assuming the emblems are original/correct. Assume it does not have the so-called Swiss Cheese frame?

FuzzFace2 wrote
So the school part:
Any way to tell years with out a VIN?
The HVAC control, both have AC, is different between them.
On a 302 motored truck is the oil pan a front or rear sump?
What frame mounts did the 302 trucks use and are they the same as other size motors used in our trucks?
I think the SBF engine mounts would be used only with the 302 and 351, but they should be the same for all years of the Bullnose (and after) as far as I know. I didn't think they were used with any other engines, but somebody on here may correct me on that.

The 302 oil pan (1980+) was considered a rear sump pan, but as Bill (I think) mentioned earlier, it was more of a middle sump pan. A front sump pan would indicate a pre-1980 pickup or a car model...
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Rembrant
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
FuzzFace2 wrote
Truck has a 8.8 rear axle.
The 8.8 rearend showed up in 1983. I'm not sure if it was in ALL 1983 models, but I know that is when they were introduced to replace the 9" rearend as the standard.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Rembrant
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
302 and 351w engine mounts were the same from 1980-1996 according to LMC. That's all I've got Dave!

1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
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In reply to this post by Rembrant
The 9" was used through '86, as shown here, but the 8.8 was more common as of 1983:



A partial VIN is stamped on the top of the frame roughly above the passenger's feet.  But I documented that in the Dad's truck build if you want to get an exact location.  And you can probably read the VIN tag by removing the dash pad and using a light and a mirror.  My brother was able to do that when I sold a truck with the wrong windshield.

The Windsor perches were used for 255, 302, and 351W for all years.

The A/C controls were 1980 - 82 and 83 - 86, as shown on the Swapping Controls tab here: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/hvac-systems.html
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Rembrant
Gary Lewis wrote
The 9" was used through '86, as shown here, but the 8.8 was more common as of 1983:

Gary,

Just curious, does the MPC break it down further as to which trucks got the 8.8 and which ones got the 9"?

I did see somebody mention on FB one day that there was a determining factor. Something like all 2wd F150's with 351w engines still got the 9" rear diff until 1986, as did all of the F150 4x4 trucks with the Non-OD 4spds? And all other F100/F150's 1983 and later got the 8.8?
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Cory - I suspect whatever someone has said about which trucks got what was a very generic answer.  I say that because it was anything but simple.  

The pages below is from Ford's 1986 Light Truck Book.  And you can tell 8.8's from 9" axles because the 8.8's have a 3.55 ratio and the 9's have a 3.50 ratio.  But as no one will every find these pages via a Google search, I'm going to attempt to translate them into words.  But, if I messed something up PLEASE correct me! 

And, by the way, I have pages from the previous years that provide the same info.  But, as you can see, this is complex and I don't want to spend the time to figure out if there were differences between the years.

From what I see, all F150's got the 8.8" except these trucks which got 9" axles:

4x2:
49 States 5.0L (302) EFI V-8 - 4 SPD MAN, either regular or limited slip, and the 9" was standard on them
49 States 5.8L (351) HO V-8 - AUTOMATIC, with the 9" being optional on the regular diff and standard on the limited slip diff
High Altitude 5.0L (302) EFI V-8 - 4 SPD MAN, with the 9" standard on both regular and limited slip diffs
High Altitude 5.8L (351) HO V-8 - AUTOMATIC, with the 9" standard on both regular and limited slip diffs


4x4:
49 States 4.9L (300) I-6 - 4 SPD MAN 0/D: 9" optional on both regular and limited slip diffs
49 States 4.9L (300) I-6 - 4 SPD MAN: 9" optional on both regular and limited slip diffs
49 States 4.9L (300) I-6 - AUTOMATIC: 9" optional on regular diffs and standard on limited slip
49 States 5.0L (302) EFI V-8 - 4 SPD MAN 0/D: 9" standard on both diffs
49 States 5.0L (302) EFI V-8 - 4 SPD MAN: 9" standard on both diffs
49 States 5.8L (351) HO V-8 - AUTOMATIC: 9" standard on both diffs
California 4.9L (300) I-6 - 4 SPD MAN 0/D: 9" standard on both diffs
California 4.9L (300) I-6 - 4 SPD MAN: 9" standard on both diffs, except that the SuperCab got the 8.8" diff in both cases
California 4.9L (300) I-6 - AUTOMATIC: 9" standard on both diffs
California
High Altitude 4.9L (300) I-6 - 4 SPD MAN 0/D: 9" standard on both diffs
High Altitude 4.9L (300) I-6 - 4 SPD MAN: 9" standard on both diffs, except that the SuperCab got the 8.8" diff in both cases
High Altitude 4.9L (300) I-6 - AUTOMATIC: 9" standard on both diffs
High Altitude 5.0L (302) EFI V-8 - 4 SPD MAN 0/D: 9" standard on both diffs
High Altitude (302) EFI V-8 - 4 SPD MAN: 9" standard on both diffs
High Altitude (351) HO V-8 - AUTOMATIC: 9" standard on both diffs




Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

old55pete
Isent there supposed to be a VIN stamped in the right frame rail? One in the engine compartment by the cross member that goes under the engine and another on the top of the frame rail under the cab, about center of the pass door?
Steve
62 F100,351 C, C6 auto
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI,AOD, IFS, 3.08 gears
90 brick nose F Super duty ( F450 ), 7.3 IDI, Banks turbo, ZF 5 speed trans. home made air to air after cooler.
07 F150 Quad cab, 5.4, 4x4
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I've only found the partial VIN that is stamped on the top of the frame roughly above the passenger's feet on the trucks I've had apart.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

myrl883
The difference whether trucks got a 8.8 or a 9" was strictly determined by gear ratios ordered and GVW of the truck. By the '85 model year, most all trucks had 8.8s. I was shocked to see a 9" in one of my son's trucks, which is a 1986 F150 built 09/86 in Canada.
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
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myrl883 wrote
The difference whether trucks got a 8.8 or a 9" was strictly determined by gear ratios ordered and GVW of the truck. By the '85 model year, most all trucks had 8.8s. I was shocked to see a 9" in one of my son's trucks, which is a 1986 F150 built 09/86 in Canada.
That does not agree with Ford's documentation, as shown in this post above.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

myrl883
I completely see where you're coming from. But in the last 35 years, I can't count how many catalog errors I've seen - even with Ford's current GCAT system, which is VIN driven based on HVBOM records.

Also, ask anyone with lots of dealership experience - fact books had little to do with facts, they were simply sales tools. lol

I've seen way too many vehicles that people thought were unique or misbuilt because they didn't match what was in a fact book...
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Rembrant
In reply to this post by myrl883
myrl883 wrote
The difference whether trucks got a 8.8 or a 9" was strictly determined by gear ratios ordered and GVW of the truck. By the '85 model year, most all trucks had 8.8s. I was shocked to see a 9" in one of my son's trucks, which is a 1986 F150 built 09/86 in Canada.
But the gear ratios were basically the same, weren't they? It's not like there's any real world difference between a 3.00 in a 9" and a 3.08 in an 8.8, or the same between the 3.50 in the 9" and the 3.55 in the 8.8, is there?

I saw an '86 F150 4x4 a couple years ago with a factory 9" rear end and found it odd. It was a 302 truck with NP435 4spd. I was told that it had the 9" because it was a 302 4spd. I had an '85 F150 4x4 with the AOD trans, and it had an 8.8 in it.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, XE256H Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Fresh Medium Blue Metallic in August 2019.
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, Cory, there's not enough difference in gear ratio to warrant one axle over the other.

The info I posted yesterday is from the 1986 facts book.  But I also checked the 1985 facts book yesterday and it shows the 9" as standard in some cases and optional in others.  And I'm confident the 1984 facts book will show that as well, although I can't check until later this morning.

And the master parts catalog shows the 9" being used through 1986:



I can't imagine Ford showing that level of detail for three years running in the dealer facts books if it was an error.  And the fact that the MPC shows the 9" still being used through '86 lends support to that theory.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

85lebaront2
Administrator
Gary, I know the 9" was available in the F150 through 1986, Matt scored a perfect set of XLT trim for his 86 F150 at a junkyard, the truck he pulled them off of had a 9", however, it was a 2WD and Matt's was a 4WD. I wonder if that may have been the difference?
Bill Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

FuzzFace2
Thanks guys.
My buddy posted the VIN from the title and it shows the truck as a 83 flare side with a 302 motor.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php
Now we will not know if that matches the dash VIN or the frame number till we dig into the truck a little more.

Now I ran my 2 trucks thru the same VIN check he did and both come up as "1981 Ford F-Series Pickup 2WD F-100 Reg Cab"? Funny as my flare side had all the right parts for a flare side where his is missing some.
Must have something to do with the years and what info the VIN decode site gives?
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
What VIN decoder are you using?  The one on here is directly from Ford's master parts catalog.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

FuzzFace2
Gary Lewis wrote
What VIN decoder are you using?  The one on here is directly from Ford's master parts catalog.
The one on that other forum I posted a link to above.

I just thought it odd it listed his 83 as a flare side but my 2 trucks, 1 a flare side, as reg or std cabs?

Cant remember if I used yours or not as I was having a heck of a time just getting the VIN right for the other site between O & 0 and F & P from the cert labels LOL
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Need some schooling ;)

Gary Lewis
Administrator
How 'bout trying the one on here and then let me know if you have similar problems?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Need some schooling ;)

FuzzFace2
Gary Lewis wrote
How 'bout trying the one on here and then let me know if you have similar problems?
My VIN 1FTCF10E4BNA30878
comes up as a 81 F100 2wd pick up complete.

I did not run his VIN thru but looking over the page I don't see any thing about flare side or style side trucks just complete or other.

On the other site you plug in the VIN and it pops up the information I just don't know where it is pulling this from? Maybe something like the Marti report you can get?
No big deal just thought it was strange his that we don't know if it started as a flare side other than on paper (title) as it was missing the filler panels and some other little signs.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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