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Jolene with another fuel issue

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jdavidsmi

Jolene with another fuel issue

As you may remember, I have had multiple fuel issues with the 84, 302 with a 2150 carburetor. New tank, pickup, fuel lines, filter, pump and I had the carburetor rebuilt, and still had trouble wanting to start, stumbling, etc. but after replacing the coil, plugs, and DSII, it ran good for a while. This past weekend when I was going to make the dump run, it would not start, turned over fine. After a few minutes it finally started and ran like it should.

By the way the old DSII was leaking, not bad enough to show up without removing it from the fender. But may have been the real reason all along.

Monday morning, I was checking the oil and noticed there’s no fuel in the clear filter, yes there is a real filter at the carburetor. It took a bit to get fuel to the carburetor, once it had fuel it started and ran fine. Now this morning again no fuel.

Looking and feeling the fuel line from the carburetor to the pump, nothing was wet, and I could not smell gas so where is the gas going? The only thing I can think of is the check valve in the pump is leaking by. This pump is only 4 months old.

Would a leaking valve also vacuum the fuel out of the bowl? This has me baffled! Something new I have dead grass under the front of the truck at the fuel vapor canister

Any ideas?

David,
1984 F150 LX, 4x4 117 wheel base, Engine Code "F" = 302, 5.0 2/B,
Transmission code "A" = 4sp manual New Process model 435
Axle code "19" = 3.55 (ford 8.8) manf. 08/1983, in Norfolk
DSO code "21" AtlantaFactory Air Conditioner, Dash with Gauges
1990 Goldwing 1500
1986 F150 XLT, short bed, 5.0 automatic
2004 F53 Fleetwood Terra motor home
2017 Chevrolet Traverse
Home town Viola Tennessee

Gary Lewis

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Administrator

No, the check valve in the pump shouldn't suck the fuel out of the carb. The carb's bowl is vented so there's no way for it to draw a vacuum and suck the fuel back.

But it isn't unusual for the filter to be dry after sitting a day or so. However, the engine should start on the gas in the bowl and the pump will then fill the filter and bowl.

So I think the carb is leaking. And the 2150 has an accelerator pump and power valve with fabric in them, so they can leak. Has the engine backfired even once? If so that can easily blow the power valve.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Administrator

In reply to this post by jdavidsmi

The vapor canister may flood just because you have a full tank and the temperature is high.
Gasoline expands a lot.
If enough overflowed to kill the grass you would smell it.

Even if your filter is dry the float bowl should have fuel to start and run the truck until the pump catches prime.
Unless the truck has been sitting for weeks, gas won't just evaporate out of the carb leaving it without fuel.

Maybe you just need to drive your truck more?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

You got there first!

A blown Powervalve cannot leak out of the carb.
It can only make the mixture too rich.

Look for stains on the intake or put a piece of paper towel under the float bowl when you park for the night.
Even if the gas evaporates it will leave a stain.
Gary is jaded because 50 years ago he had a leaky Holley.
Gaskets and Powervalves have gotten a lot better since then.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Administrator

Yes, I'm jaded. Biased even.

But I have seen power valves leak out of the carb on the 2150. That takes two failures, but I've seen it. First the power valve fails, and second the gasket to the power valve cover fails. Or, for the few trucks with external vacuum to the power valve, the vacuum hose fails. So, I admit it is rare but it can happen.

More likely is the accelerator pump. I've seen lots of those leaking on these carbs. Dad's truck did it frequently as the screws seemed to loosen on the cover.

Anyway, I agree that placing a paper towel under the bowl is a good idea. I use the blue paper towels for that because getting hit with fuel usually leaves a stain even if it dries. Harder to tell on the white ones.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

jdavidsmi

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

I have not heard or felt it backfired, except right after I got it, but not for a long time, different carburetor now. Before I started it today, I pulled the top off the carb and the bowl was almost dry. Once I had fuel in the bowl it started right up.

Could float level cause it? Just thought I should say it’s not dieseling either.

I hooked up the remote start switch so I could watch how long it took to get gas to the clear filter. It was something like 15 seconds.

I moved it around while I was mowing this afternoon. Starting and stopping a couple of times, then I put a paper towel under the carburetor we will see in the morning.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Administrator

I don't think float level would cause a dry bowl unless the level was very, very low. There will always be some evaporation, but not a lot.

If your paper towel test doesn't show it leaking on the outside of the intake manifold then I suggest you park it with the throttle propped open so you can pull the air cleaner and look down the throat the next morning. Look to see if the bottom of the intake manifold is wet, like it has been leaking into the intake.

If you don't prop the throttle open the accelerator pump will squirt fuel into the intake when you open the throttle so you can see down the throat.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

jdavidsmi

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Check it this morning, the paper towel did not look wet, but it was damp and smelled like gas. But it had gas in the glass filter, and it started right up.

Tonight I will try propping open the throttle trick.

I sure it doesn’t make any difference, but normally it’s parked on a rise, so water will not pond in the bed, list night it was in the driveway fairly level.

jdavidsmi

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Thought I would update this thread.
I did the test Gary described, opened the throttle plate, and let it set overnight. Could not see any fuel in the throat. But the glass filter had fuel in it. Not like before when it was dry.

My friend suggested checking the power valve, I pulled the carburetor off and the valve housing was full of gas. I cleaned it up, found a new gasket, reinstalled it and the carburetor.

After turning the engine over for a few minutes, it started right up but the idle was high, and would not drop down. Even after driving it a bit and the temperature was up. I had to tap the foot feed to drop the idle then it would only drop to 1100RPM. Pulling the air filter off and looking down reviled the throttle plate was sticking on the gasket. I readjusted the carburetor and gasket. Now it starts just fine when cold still a little high on the RPMs, which I think is the high idle adjustment.

I have driven over 200 miles over the last week or so, cold start is good, but not so easy when hot. When started Engine is steady at idle, accelerates smooth, and pulls the hills around here with no problem

I’m going to adjust the choke a tiny bit and see if it helps with the hot start.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jolene with another fuel issue

Administrator

Sounds like you found the problem and are getting the bugs worked out. Well done!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile