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Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

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Gary Lewis

Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

This thread is intended to allow me to understand what Jim did to create a Borgeson-like lower steering shaft at about 1/10 the cost. Here are some links to pictures and discussions thereof:

Recent discussion with pics and links

Discussion in Lower Rag Joint thread

This discussion in WHYDTYTT

The overall intent is so I can accurately create a tab on a page in Documentation to explain to others how to do it. But I've not twigged myself so have some questions for Jim - or anyone for that matter:

1. You cut the u-joints off of the 2009 - 2014 F150 lower steering shaft and welded them onto your old steering shaft?

2. In this post Cory said that later lower shaft is a direct swap for the Bullnose one. But that didn't work on your '87, Jim? What was different?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

I'm kinda surprised you didn't tag me for this thread????

1) I cut the pinch bolt ends off the cheap eBay shaft and used the splined rag joint end of an old bullnose shaft (I got from you) and welded it onto the 2009-14 lower shaft.
I also needed to weld the "double D" through bolt top end of my '87 shaft onto the U-joint shaft.

2) Cory said an '87-'91 shaft will fit a Bullnose. Again, the shaft I used was 2009-- 2014. not '87-'91.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

2. In this post Cory said that later lower shaft is a direct swap for the Bullnose one. But that didn't work on your '87, Jim? What was different?

Hiya Gary,

The 1987-1991 steering shafts will swap right into a Bullnose. They're definitely better than the 1980-1986 steering shafts with the proper "dry" u-joint at the top, and the bonded rubber rag joint at the bottom. I installed one in my 1984 F150. I mainly did it because my bullnose upper joint rubber was ripped (like they all do eventually). Of course a Borgeson shaft is probably the best option, but it's expensive. The Bricknose steering shaft is a good upgrade piece imho.

PS: I got a used southern shaft from Steve83 that used to be on here. I think it was $15. Unfortunately, the spring in the slip joint was broken in about 3 pieces, and no matter how hard I tried I could not find a proper piece of metal to replace it with. I ended up welding a couple nuts on the sides of the shaft and put some set screws in to remove the slop.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

Jim - I typed that this morning, hit Post, and walked out the door to church. Got halfway there and it hit me - I should have tagged you.

Guys - I think I'm starting to understand. But let me try this on you:

Bullnose: Has the boot over the upper u-joint which usually (always?) splits and the rag joint at the bottom that gets sloppy. The one at the bottom of the pic below is a good example, although it lacks the splined piece that goes onto the steering box, and which may be in Connecticut.

87 - 91: A good upgrade over a Bullnose as it has an upper u-joint that needs no boot and a rag joint that is tighter and smaller - like the one in the middle in the pic below.

2009 - 2014: Has u-joints on both ends but won't fit onto either the Bullnose steering column output shaft nor the Bullnose steering box input shaft. So Jim cut the pinch bolt ends off of his 2009 - 14 shaft and welded ends on from earlier shafts that will fit the steering column and steering box shafts - and ensure they are properly phased to keep the steering wheel aligned with the wheels.

Top Shaft: I have no idea what the top shaft in the pic is off of. But it has the same rag joint and splined end as the 87-91 shaft, although it very different at the top end - and that is bent.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

That seems a good summary of what I did to make the '09 shaft center section fit my Bricknose.
It doesn't have any flat springs or plastic bushings in the telescoping section.
I'm also startled to recall that it was under $20 delivered (mentioned current cost to Rene)

The top one? I have no idea...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

Ok, thanks Jim. Now maybe I can translate my understanding to something someone else can grasp.

As for the top one, it's lower flange might be a good candidate to weld onto a 2009-14 shaft. No good for anything else given the bend.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

1992-1996/7 has U-joints at both ends and a slip section in the center. Due to the change to a stub column (FoMoCo universal column) one U-joint is inside the cab, the other is at the steering box. This design finally eliminated the "skewed" column that was in the 1980-1991 trucks. Here is the inside one on Darth:

Note the angle of the intermediate shaft and you can see the end of the outer portion in the firewall penetration.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

Bill - I'll bet the top one in my pic above is the 1992 + unit.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

Ok guys, I modified the previous Rag Joint page to now be the Lower Steering Shaft page: Documentation/Steering/Lower Steering Shaft. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

However, I'm working in the background to get the picture sizes sorted, so I'm know that's messed up. What I'm really looking for is upgrades on the wording, flow, etc. PLEASE!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

No, because I am pretty sure mine has a U-joint at the box (one of the reasons I wanted that style). I may have to go look, the 1995 Body and Chassis volume shows a rubber coupling at the lower end. If my lowly K-Car has two U-joints in the steering shaft, shouldn't my truck have them too?

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I think you've done a tremendous job pulling my scattered thoughts and pictures together.
Some of those photos may be staged. (there's not much point taking a picture of a steaming rag)

The only things id like to see are the part numbers for the '88-'91 shaft and the number for the 2009-14 lower shaft.

Also, I might add that there is no flat spring (that Cory found broken and tightened with two set screws) or plastic bush to wear out in the 2009 telescoping section.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

I do have the part number in there on the 1988 - 1991 Shaft item. It says "In 1988 Ford introduced a new lower shaft with part number E8TZ 3B676-A, which should carry the ID # on it of E8TA 3E751-AA. That part was used through 1991 on the pickups." But if you missed it maybe I should make it bold or put it in red or some other color?

However, I don't have the part number for the "2009-2014" in there. Looking at the RA catalog for a 2009 F150 I find the following entries, but they say that the part isn't for a 2009 - 2014 F150, but instead a 2009 & 2010 F150, although it does fit other applications out to 2014. So I think it is best that we say 2009-2010 F150 and use the part numbers of 7L1Z 3B676-A, B, & C as well as 8L1Z 3B676-A.

Does that make sense?

SKP SK425366: $50

FORD EXPEDITION 2007-2014
FORD F-150 2009-2010
FORD LOBO 2009-2010
LINCOLN NAVIGATOR 2007-2014

DORMAN 425366:OEM/Interchange Numbers: 7L1Z3B676A, 7L1Z3B676B, 7L1Z3B676C, 8L1Z3B676A $107

DORMAN 425387 Steering Shaft: OEM/Interchange Numbers: 7L1Z3E751A $109

FORD EXPEDITION 2007-2014
FORD F-150 2009-2010
LINCOLN NAVIGATOR 2007-2014

Lares 507: OEM/Interchange Numbers: 425366, 7L1Z3B676A, 7L1Z3B676B, 7L1Z3B676C, 8L1Z3B676A Out of stock, so no price

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

That's odd. The eBay listing I bought from definitely said '09-14 F-150

1A Auto gives me #8L1Z-3B676-A

Here's a screenshot

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

RA says that a 2014 F150 takes a BL3Z 3B676-A, which is a different #. That doesn't mean it won't fit though.

Given the conflicting info we have, I think the safe thing to do is to use the part number info of 7L1Z 3B676-A, B, & C as well as 8L1Z 3B676-A. And include the application info that Dorman provides with those #'s.

How does that sound?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

Fine with me.
Heck, were cutting the ends off anyhow....
Who cares what it fits?

These seem to be $33~ delivered on eBay and ~45 Amazon Prime.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

I do have the part number in there on the 1988 - 1991 Shaft item. It says "In 1988 Ford introduced a new lower shaft with part number E8TZ 3B676-A, which should carry the ID # on it of E8TA 3E751-AA. That part was used through 1991 on the pickups."

When I look at the chart, under /Part Numbers/ it says "lower -'82/'88- also replace 3524 & 3E715, tilt wheel only."

I don't have tilt wheel. Perhaps I misunderstand?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

That's one reason I've not mentioned buying a replacement Bullnose lower shaft. I do NOT understand the table of part numbers!

From what I see there's:

All before 2/81 take E0TZ-A. This should mean power and manual steering and tilt as well as non-tilt columns.

2/81 to 12/81 the manual steering trucks take E1TZ-A and power steering takes E1TZ-B, regardless of tilt or not

From 12/81 to the end of the catalog, meaning 1989, the manual steering trucks take E2TZ-A. But the power steering trucks should use E8TZ-A. However, that must surely have originally been E2TZ-B. And then there's the part you referenced that says "1982/88-also replace 3524 & 3E715, tilt wheel only." 3524 is Shaft assy, (steering column), meaning the lower shaft in the steering column. And 3E715 is Actuator (steering column lock lever). So it looks to me like if you replace the lower shaft you are supposed to change out some parts in the column as well - on trucks with a tilt column.

Does the above seem to capture what the table says? If so maybe I should include that on the Part Numbers tab?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

It looks to me like 3B676 is a lower shaft (ALL lower shafts)
And 3524 must be upper (hinged) with 3E715 being the hinged actuator that always breaks.

Maybe ping Ralph?
He seems to be our resident counter jockey and the one who can best make sense of the book.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

Jim - Yes, 3B676 is the lower shaft, even up to today. The part number for what you bought is BL3Z 3B676-A. And you are right on the other parts, although I don't understand why they need to be changed if the lower shaft is changed.

Ralph - Can you help us here?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

From what I see there's:
"1982/88-also replace 3524 & 3E715, tilt wheel only." 3524 is Shaft assy, (steering column), meaning the lower shaft in the steering column. And 3E715 is Actuator (steering column lock lever).

You seemed to suggest that 3524 was the lower column.
But, as we all know, EVERY Ford lower column carries the same 3B676 number...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Recent discussion with pics and links

Discussion in Lower Rag Joint thread

This discussion in WHYDTYTT

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Bullnose: Has the boot over the upper u-joint which usually (always?) splits and the rag joint at the bottom that gets sloppy. The one at the bottom of the pic below is a good example, although it lacks the splined piece that goes onto the steering box, and which may be in Connecticut.

87 - 91: A good upgrade over a Bullnose as it has an upper u-joint that needs no boot and a rag joint that is tighter and smaller - like the one in the middle in the pic below.

Top Shaft: I have no idea what the top shaft in the pic is off of. But it has the same rag joint and splined end as the 87-91 shaft, although it very different at the top end - and that is bent.

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

FORD EXPEDITION 2007-2014 FORD F-150 2009-2010 FORD LOBO 2009-2010 LINCOLN NAVIGATOR 2007-2014

FORD EXPEDITION 2007-2014 FORD F-150 2009-2010 LINCOLN NAVIGATOR 2007-2014

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

All before 2/81 take E0TZ-A. This should mean power and manual steering and tilt as well as non-tilt columns.

2/81 to 12/81 the manual steering trucks take E1TZ-A and power steering takes E1TZ-B, regardless of tilt or not

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

Re: Jim's Lower Steering Shaft Q&A

FORD EXPEDITION 2007-2014
FORD F-150 2009-2010
FORD LOBO 2009-2010
LINCOLN NAVIGATOR 2007-2014

FORD EXPEDITION 2007-2014
FORD F-150 2009-2010
LINCOLN NAVIGATOR 2007-2014