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Issue: starter continues to crank

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83bullnose

Issue: starter continues to crank

This post was updated on .

After quite a few head scratches and google searches as well as my first post on here, I got my truck to start cranking. Now the problem is the starter continues to crank even when I remove the key. Not really sure what could be the problem. I put on a new starter relay as well. The truck does start now but with the starter staying on, I don't want to damage the starter or the flywheel.
Update to this post, I went out and checked the starter relay with the continuity test that was good, checked for power with key is different positions that was good. So does this mean I have a bad starter or voltage regulator? I do know that when I tap on the starter relay the starter would stop cranking.

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

Gary Lewis

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Administrator

Sorry for the delayed response.

If tapping on the starter relay stops the cranking then the relay is bad. I do understand you put a new one on and it did the same thing, which suggests that the starter is pulling too much current and is killing the relays.

What usually happens with a starter is that the bushings wear to the point that the armature drags on the field slightly. That causes more current to be drawn, which heats up the armature causing it to expand and drag more, which causes it to pull more current, which.... And at some point it welds the contacts on the relay closed.

So I'd check out the starter. Or, really, replace the starter. But I'd go with the PMGR upgrade as they pull less current but spin the engine faster. Ford changed everything over to the Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction starter in the 90's, so get a starter for a mid-90's 351W with an auto tranny. But that requires a slight wiring change, as described at Documentation/Electrical/PMGR Starter Wiring.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

83bullnose

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

so if i were to go to a parts store and get a pmgr starter brand new, which vehicle would i be trying to get one for? is there a list of vehicles from the mid 90s that had a 351w in them somewhere in the forum already? or is there a specific one that most people use?

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

Gary Lewis

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Administrator

That's a good question. Looking at our page on starter interchange it appears that the PMGR starter was first used on the trucks in '92. So you should be able to get one by asking for a starter for a '92 with your engine and transmission. And the interchange page says it should be part number E9SZ 11002-BX, although that looks like an ID # and not a part # to me.

Put it side by side with your current starter and compare the depth of the nose from where it goes into the transmission to ensure you have the right one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

83bullnose

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

will do, thank you. i am currently looking at rockauto just for pricing one out before driving to get one, its about a half hour drive to the closest parts store.

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

83bullnose

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

so pulled my starter off to count the teeth cause i saw a lot talking about the ten teeth and 9 teeth, i will double check tomorrow but i am 99% sure mine has 9 teeth how do i go about upgrading to the pmgr starter if they are all 10 teeth?

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

Gary Lewis

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Administrator

I'm going to tag John/Machspeed on this as he recently installed a PMGR starter on Blackie. Let's see what he says about tooth count.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Pretty sure we determined that while the tooth counts are different, the motor itself still works as the shaft position was changed in the casting.

Point being that the flywheel/flexplates weren't changed nor were transmission bellhousings during the transition year (and the lineage of compatible parts between starters, bellhousings, and flywheels/flexplates goes back to the Bullnose era).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Administrator

Thanks, Larry. I'd forgotten how that turned out. So 9 or 10 teeth doesn't matter as they adjusted for that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

83bullnose

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

In reply to this post by ratdude747

well thats good news that when they made the switch to the new style starter the only thing they changed was the starter.

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

83bullnose

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

also all the big name auto parts stores are pretty pricey on the starters, rock auto has them for about half the price so i am probably just going to order one from there. going to probably start a project thread for my truck just to keep everything in one place, also debating on starting up a youtube channel on the truck but its going to be a slow restore be it lack of money. i will get it done in due time though.

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

ratdude747

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

In reply to this post by 83bullnose

Remember that the wiring did change... I was only speaking on mechanical compatibility.

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Maybe not good advice, but I bought my starter on eBay as a used OE unit when I made the upgrade. Fingers crossed, it's been a good unit so far.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

85lebaront2

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Administrator

My first PMGR starter for Darth came from Precision in Portsmouth VA (my son was the manger so he brought me one the next day) in 2010, it finally expired about 2 years ago and was replaced with one from Pasco here in Exmore. Funny thing, the box was a Precision Certi-Pro box, Pasco bought them out along with the name.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Machspeed

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Thanks, Larry. I'd forgotten how that turned out. So 9 or 10 teeth doesn't matter as they adjusted for that.

I was very concerned about the tooth count when I made the switch, as the new PMG starter had a different tooth count than my OEM starter did. I bought my starter from AZ and the manager, after running several checks, said it would work. So yes, in my case, the tooth count on the starter is not a big issue.

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

83bullnose

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

In reply to this post by ratdude747

what size do yall suggest i use? i have 12 gauge wire but not 10, think 12 would be ok?

1983 F350 white 4dr 2wd
351w automatic

ratdude747

Re: Issue: starter continues to crank

I used 12 gauge for the solenoid wire. No issues.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).