Insurance?

Gary Lewis wrote

The Hagerty site isn't making any sense to me.  It didn't give me any place to discuss some rather expensive options, like the new ZF5 and the D60 up front.  They are just assuming it is a box stock '85 F250.

Gary,

it didn't for me either. Mine for example has a 5spd added and a professionally built and dyno tuned 5.0L making 300HP, but the appraisal assumes all stock. When I talked to the gal on the phone, she just told me to add the value of these items and that is what they would insure the truck for (and they did). So, while the upgrades on mine are not documented in my insurance, I have the truck insured for the value including the upgrades regardless.

I have a very different take on this than most seem to...

I haven't looked at Haggerty, or any "collector car" insurance recently, but when I had my Model A (sold a little over 20 years ago) the onlt collectors insurance I could find had a lot of restrictions.  The straw that broke the camel's back on that for me was when my agent told me he had another client that had got in an accident driving his car to a restaurant for breakfast (covered as a "joy ride" as everyone understood).  The company fought hard not to cover it, saying that it was morning rush hour and he must have been driving to work (not covered).

Since then I've always had my toys on my normal auto policy (Allstate in my case), but...

The advice my dad gave me was never to insure something I could afford to lose.  Insurance companies need to make money (they're not greedy or evil, it's just that's what all companies need to do).  So on average you will pay them more than they will ever pay you, and it will cost you more to hae insurance than not.

The exception to this is stuff you can't afford to lose.  Health insurance is pretty much required.  Homeowners insurance (for the liability as well as the value of the home).  Liability insurance on your cars.  And a car you can't afford to lose (especially if you have a loan on it and would have to pay the bank if it was totaled).

But a toy car is something you can almost always afford to lose.  Not that you could necessarily afford to replace it, but would you need to?  Yeah, it'd be a drag to lose something that you have so much blood, sweat and tears into, but face it, that'd be a drag whether you got the money back or not.

So all I have on my Bronco is liability insurance (and conventional plates).  That way I can use it however I want without worrying about whether I'm going to be covered.  And since I haven't wrecked my Model A, Jeep CJ5 or Bronco in the past 30 years, I've saved enough in premiums to replace the Bronco if I do need to (not that I've just kept that cash in the bank...).

So that's my advice, not that anyone is required to follow it.

Edit to add:  In Minnesota, all it says to get collectors plates is that the vehicle must be over 20 years old and you must certify that you have one or more vehicles with regular plates.  But if you go to the FAQ sectionof the "Driver and Vehicle Services web site under collector plates the first question that comes up is if there's a mileage restriction.  The answer is "Minnesota does not have a mileage restriction for collector class vehicles.  Collector vehicles are to be operated only as a “Collector’s Item” and may not be used for general transportation. Generally driving to and from collector events (shows, parades) is acceptable.  Check with local Law Enforcement for more specific issues."  So I don't have collector plates on my Bronco.

That does bring up an issue here in VA, antique plates limit the usage, and the VSP are starting to crack down on people running them. It is supposed to an antique (over 25 years) vehicle that can be driven to and from shows, parades etc. and not as a daily driver. You are allowed to go out for drives, but the total annual mileage was and may still be limited.

There is a provision for "vintage" plates and we did Matt's (son) 1965 Corvair Corsa that way. They have to be for the year of the vehicle and can be done as "antique" where they are registered to the vehicle or "vintage" where you still have the month and year of expiration stickers on them. Matt made some small tabs attached behind the plate with the mounting screws for them. When he took it a car show, he would remove them and put them in the glove box till afterwards.

I currently have two vehicles that qualify as antiques, Darth and the Taurus, once the convertible is finished it will technically be an antique as even the engine is technically correct as the TurboII first showed up in the late 1986 GLHS models. One of the areas VSP started cracking down on are the street rods like the 1955 Dodge pickup I helped a friend with. He had a 360 Mopar and Torqueflite in it, along with a MustangII front suspension. It was no where near stock. He was stopped one day when he was just out riding around and told if he wanted to just drive it, put different tags on it. I suggested he do what we had done on Matt's car so he could remove the month and year stickers for shows. He decided he needed another project and sold it and started on a 1956 Ford panel truck with running gear from a 1972 Ranchero with a 351C 4 barrel engine. Ranchero was badly rusted, but ran he figured that and the early Econoline 9" rear he picked up would be perfect for the 1956 Panel.

I going to update this thread with what I've learned about insuring Big Blue.  And to put this into perspective, Cory pointed out that Hagerty says BB is worth $12,500.  But I've created a spreadsheet documenting all of the things I've added to it, that ups the value "slightly".

State Farm is where we currently have most of our insurance, so I spent quite a bit of time talking to them.  Here are some details from that conversation:

Value: They use Kelly's Blue Book which says Big Blue is worth $4000.  But they've had several instances where a vehicle was totaled and a replacement was 2+ times what Kelly's said.  So if that is the case you can do your own homework and bring that to State Farm and "they'll work work with you".  (I haven't found State Farm willing to work with me in the past.)

Add-Ons: If you have added several things then you can claim them if you have a total loss, but you have to have receipts.  And, they prorate depending on the time and/or miles from when it was installed to when the loss was.

At the end of the conversation my agent volunteered that their policy is probably not what I'm looking for.

AMIG: Meanwhile, my friend that is an insurance agent has been working with American Modern Insurance Group, which has a "collector car" policy which looks really good.  Here are some details:

Value: According to AMIG "A car can be worth more than the depreciated value listed in a price book. Once we agree on a value for your prized possession, that’s what you’ll get in the event of a total loss (in a total loss the settlement is inclusive of all applicable taxes and fees). There’s no depreciation or questions."

Mileage: As opposed to Hagerty who says you basically can't drive the vehicle, AMIG has mileage plans for 1,000, 3,000, 6,000 or unlimited miles annually.

My friend got me a quote for the $12,500 that Hagerty says BB is worth plus what I've documented I have in it beyond the base vehicle, and I'm almost for sure going to go with AMIG for Big Blue, and will look at doing so for Dad's truck.

Thanks for the update. That’s good to know.

If I’m ever in a position to insure like you are with your trucks, it’s good to know different companies.

I have a question or an assumption. If you go overlanding and prang up Big Blue, that’s not covered, correct?

Good question, and one I'll have to get an answer to.  Thanks, Dane.

Well, we got the answer back from AMIG.  According to my insurance man "They only want to insure parked collector vehicles" and have "respectfully declined".  So he is out of options.

Given that, I'm stuck.  Anyone have suggestions for other insurance companies to try?

Well, I went with Hagerty.  I called them and they were willing to insure Big Blue for the value I came up with, which was their valuation plus what I have put into him.  They didn't need my spreadsheet, but took my word for it.

But Hagerty insurance isn't for everyone.  Here are some of the limitations:

Can't be a daily driver.  You have to have daily driver vehicles for the drivers in the family.

Max of 5000 miles per year.  So I'll have to be careful and limit the trips, but we were already going for something like 6500 miles with AMIG, so I think I can live with it.

The truck has to have a garage to be stored in when not on trips.

It isn't cheap.  They are charging much more than what State Farm has been charging.  But the coverage is so much better than what State Farm provides that I believe it is worth it - for something you've put a whole lot of work and money into.

My brother has Hagerty for his 1969 Cougar, and he's been pushing me to get it for my SHOs but I have never pursued it....

Gary Lewis wrote

Well, I went with Hagerty. I called them and they were willing to insure Big Blue for the value I came up with, which was their valuation plus what I have put into him. They didn't need my spreadsheet, but took my word for it. But Hagerty insurance isn't for everyone. Here are some of the limitations:

Can't be a daily driver. You have to have daily driver vehicles for the drivers in the family.

Max of 5000 miles per year. So I'll have to be careful and limit the trips, but we were already going for something like 6500 miles with AMIG, so I think I can live with it.

The truck has to have a garage to be stored in when not on trips.

It isn't cheap. They are charging much more than what State Farm has been charging. But the coverage is so much better than what State Farm provides that I believe it is worth it - for something you've put a whole lot of work and money into.

Good choice, I have used Hagerty for years and been happy. Actually had a claim filed in 2011 on a Mustang and they paid accordingly and i bought the vehicle back from them

Andrew - Thanks.  I have the Cherished Salvage coverage which says "For a total loss or “constructive total loss”, the salvage belongs to you."  So I wouldn't have to buy it back.

Chris - No time like the present.