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Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

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reamer

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

This post was updated on .

Well I guess i'll replace the timing chain, Never done that before, But as you said It has good, even compression and it is a wear item, I guess I'll dig into the unknown.

How do you get the spedisleeve off?
How to get it on?
Have to drain the oil?

Thanks

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

I cut my sleeve off, but it shouldn't have one from the factory.

Without knowing how many miles are on the engine, or it's history I can't say what you'll find.

You clean the spacer with scotchbrite and brakleen.

There's a tiny tube of Loctite in the kit.
Look at my pictures...

No you don't need to drain the oil, but you have to be very careful not to drop chunks of gasket and rust into the front of the pan.

Again, look at my pics...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

Oh, the sleeve goes right on.

I tapped it home with a rubber mallet and a scrap of oak flooring I found in the back of my truck.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

reamer

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

What's the purpose of the sleeve?

Do I need one?

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

The sleeve covers up a groove in the surface where the seal runs. Gives you a new surface. But only you can tell if you need one as it is really hard to get pics of grooves. Can you catch your thumbnail in it?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by reamer

(I see we were posting at the same moment, Gary!)

Just look at my pictures! (Mon, Tue, in WDYDTYTT)

The oil seal scores the shaft.
The scored shaft tears up the new oil seal.

How can I possibly know what the inside of your engine looks like?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

My pic of the scoring is pretty good, Gary.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

I'm driving right now.
Please put the pic of old and new side-by-side for Ron

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'm driving right now.
Please put the pic of old and new side-by-side for Ron

Let's see if this works:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

Thank you Gary!

You can see why you would need one....

If your chain is clapped out, you need to check, and probably have to cover the scoring.(or get a new spacer)
So, the gasket set WITH, is a cheap option compared to a $12 sleeve and a tube of Loctite in addition.

Me? I don't want to open it up and "realize" that I can't move forward without going BACK to the auto parts store.

On the right you see the tiny tube of Loctite, the piece of oak, the mallet and the sleeve in place.

I try to be descriptive, and have good illustrations when I post.
But I can't make you look at the WDYDTYTT

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

I agree - get the kit with the Speedisleeve. And if you don't use it put it on the shelf as someone will come along that needs it. Like Steve/FoxFord33 did in my shop.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Thank you guys.
You give me the confidence to tackle this!

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Rembrant

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

reamer wrote

Thank you guys.
You give me the confidence to tackle this!

Once you get the fan off, if you can get any kind of a swing at them, it wouldn't hurt to give the bolt heads a smack with a hammer. Those water pump and timing cover bolts are bad for breaking off. I had one hex head snap off, but once I removed the timing cover there was an inch or so to grab and it spun out easily then.

I bought a bolt kit, and while I didn't use every one of them, I did end up using a couple or three of them.

Not sure if this is the one, but it was the same as this anyway...

https://www.jegs.com/i/Speedmaster/746/PCE447.1001/10002/-1

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

That "Alloy Boltz" place on eBay has the stainless kits for these engines.
They ship fast and have great prices compared to buying onesies-twosies at the local hardware.....

Be prepared to deal with pitting, or replacement of a broken timing case if you have to force it off.

Like I've said before, mild application of acid will dissolve the corrosion out of the pocket if you break a bolt head off.
Just be sure to tape off the crank, so you don't eat it or let acid into the sump.
I used an IM needle for this....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

In reply to this post by reamer

reamer wrote

Timing light shows 10 BTDC, firing off #1 plug. is there something else I can do?

If your chain skipped a tooth, how is your timing light still showing 1O° BTDC?

How does the seal journal on the crank spacer look?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

The only way would be if he reset the timing at some point after it slipped/skipped. If not, then it hasn't - yet.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

$40 delivered!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F311904436138

The polished set is only $9.95 more.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hmmm, loss of power won't hold speed...

Administrator

I was mistaken.
I saw the blue background and 'thought' polished...

But this is another company.
And they are selling a Allen bolt set.

It's "pre '77" but to the best of my knowledge that just means the water pump inlet and thermostat switched sides.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F121551456692

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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