Help On 3G Page

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Re: Help On 3G Page

ArdWrknTrk
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Scott, what are you using to turn your voltmeter on?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
LG/R (part of the fused loop) is Hot In Run.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by kramttocs
Yes, keeping C610 makes it far easier to go back.

But why the 60 amp fuse?  The yellow wire goes to fuse links L & M?  Just extra protection?

I see what you are doing on the voltmeter.  But your order of explaining it threw me.  I think of LG/R being the source, through a 1A fuse to R/O going to the voltmeter, and then Y/LG from the voltmeter to ground.  (Originally I thought you were using the R/O and Y/LG from the ends of the shunt, but then realized what you were doing.)  My only problem with that is that your voltmeter is reading the voltage at the ignition switch rather than the battery.  But, it is a cleaner way to do it and doesn't require the relay, and the voltages should differ very much.

So, maybe we should adopt that approach in the scenario where we have a voltmeter?  LG/R can go to both the 3G awa the voltmeter.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Help On 3G Page

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Guys, I'm having a mental breakdown.  I'm missing something that should be intuitively obvious to the casual observer.  When we say we are keeping C610 but then say "the alternator side of C610 is pretty useless with a 3G" I get lost.

I was assuming we are keeping both sides of C610, but are cutting the wires as shown below.  Right?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
You're right, even though I put arrows I wasn't thinking directional from positive. I've updated the post although the Yellow/Battery is still backwards

The original reason for the 60A was just a matter of replacing one form of protection with another and not removing any protection. The quick to follow second reason is that it is nice to leave everything hooked up but just remove the fuse to interrupt power to the cab when doing electrical work. I prefer it to having a loose ring terminal. At this stage in the rebuild, disconnecting the fuses happens fairly often.

It would be interesting to do a voltage comparison. Honestly I don't recall what rocketman set my voltmeter values to so I wouldn't know if it was off

Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by kramttocs
So you're using the exciter wire itself for the voltmeter?

You're not monitoring battery power? (or close to it)
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Help On 3G Page

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
You're cutting the ammeter on the far side of the plug and the stator & shunt on the near side of the plug.

Just unplug the plug.
Done!
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Yes to the first but how so to the second?

In Start it goes through a resistance wire but in run it's full 12v. Granted, as Gary said, it take a circuitous route through the ignition switch.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
My dash takes a hit from every cab load, lights, blower, etc..
If I had power windows or something else, even more.

I don't even want to know about the cab, I want to know about the charge state of my battery.
If you look at the HO diagrams you'll see the stator triggers a relay that gets its power directly from the battery+ stud of the fender relay.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Help On 3G Page

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
You're cutting the ammeter on the far side of the plug and the stator & shunt on the near side of the plug.

Just unplug the plug.
Done!
I think it must be time for me to go to bed as I'm dense.  I'm not getting it.  And I'm not trying to be difficult, although I probably am being difficult.  

We have two halves of a plug and w/o both halves there's nothing to connect to.  And I don't understand "far side" vs "near side".  (Actually I did get Far Side most often, but not tonight.  )

So, is this right?  Both sides of C610 are still there and we have leads coming out to connect to.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Help On 3G Page

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
(And with that, I've had enough of my crappy device putting words in my mouth and "the Nabble Server is Overcapacity, try again later")

If I'm gone for a month or two don't bother with a search party, okay?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Help On 3G Page

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, look at where the red lines are in relation to the ammeter...

Don't cut anything... just unplug 610 and be done.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Ok, I see and that was actually how I had it originally laid out back before the rebuild started:



Since the two wires are going to an isolated fuse in my ssVEC it would be easy to plug them into relay terminals instead. So far my voltmeter has stayed pretty constant but I'll see about adding all the load I can and testing the difference.

My suggestion in the official doc would be recommending the relay. While all the add-on voltmeters I've used (cheap) just hook into a key-on circuit we might as well go with the unquestionably accurate approach. I didn't realize the HO had it this way. Don't think I've ever looked at those diagrams.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Jim - I am not following either. If you unplug C610 but don't cut anything (cab side?) then you've just got an unhooked connector and no cab power, etc.

The diagram you have Gary with the red lines gets my vote for reasons I mentioned earlier.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
ArdWrknTrk wrote
Gary, look at where the red lines are in relation to the ammeter...

Don't cut anything... just unplug 610 and be done.
Jim - I'm sorry for the server response.  As you know, I have a sys admin supposedly working on our new home.  Please don't go away.

As for the red lines, I think I see what you are saying on their placement with respect to the ammeter.  They were on the wrong side of C610.  They all have to be on the same side of the connector, meaning either the "cab side" or the "alternator side".  And I had them mixed, but have changed that in the schematic below.

However, I'm not sure I understand "Don't cut anything... just unplug 610 and be done."  Does that mean tap into the circuits ahead of C610, but leave the cab half of C610 for future use?  Also like shown below?

Scott - I've seen my cab voltage change significantly with load, which is why I wanted my voltmeter to read battery voltage, and even then I can see the effect of large load changes.  But I can also see that many people might want to do it your way since it is so much easier, so have no problem presenting both approaches and explaining the differences.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
Gary Lewis wrote
As for the red lines, I think I see what you are saying on their placement with respect to the ammeter.  They were on the wrong side of C610.  They all have to be on the same side of the connector, meaning either the "cab side" or the "alternator side".  And I had them mixed, but have changed that in the schematic below.
Missed that as well. Jim has a good eye!
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
Was curious so did some measurements of the yellow wire on my spare harness at lunch. Not sure anything will help in this thread but if there is something I can provide from this as it is all un-taped and easily accessible, let me know.




Very rough/ballpark measurements:
From C610 to the passenger side firewall grommet = 3'
Grommet to splice S208 = 6'
S208 to ign switch = 2' 4"
Splice to fuse box = 1' 8"
Splice to Aux Battery C232 - 2' 6"
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Interesting, Scott.  Would it be helpful to put those on here?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Help On 3G Page

kramttocs
Administrator
I think having the lengths in the evtm would be great! I've started writing gauges down in mine as well.

I am about to the point where I can get rid of this harness anyways so what I'll do is start pulling it apart and getting accurate measurements.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: Help On 3G Page

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I misunderstood.  You said:
From C610 to the passenger side firewall grommet = 3'
Grommet to splice S208 = 6'
S208 to ign switch = 2' 4"
Splice to fuse box = 1' 8"
Splice to Aux Battery C232 - 2' 6"

Somehow I was thinking that we needed both pages in one view, but if we can assume that the firewall grommet is the break between pages 17 and 18 of the 1985 EVTM then we'd have something we could put on each page.  Is that a reasonable assumption?  Is there any way you can confirm that?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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