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Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

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Gimmeagig

Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Hi,
I have a 84 351 HO F150. It had some teeth missing on the big chainring (not sure if that's what you call it) that the stater engages to and that caused several starters to fail after a while. So I had my mechanic replace the big chainring with a hardened one and redo all the seals while he had the engine apart. But even after the repair the starters are really noisy and clank before they engage.Once the starter engages everything is fine. But I just had another starter fail. I put in a additional electrical fuel pump so that the starter wouldn't have crank so much to get the fuel to the carb after the truck has been sitting for a while. But that clanking before it engages is probably not good for the started and it will fail again. My Mechanic is stumped he has never seen a problem like that, and he works on old classic cars all the time. So I wonder if any of you guys might have an Idea what I could do? The starters I have used came from NAPA and O'Reilly's.
Are there better more sturdy starters I could use? Has anybody here experienced the same thing?

1985 (March) F150
351 HO
Edelbrock carb
Shortbed

85lebaront2

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Administrator

Get a later model PMGR starter (1994 up) for your application (automatic or manual). If your mechanic replaced the flywheel ring gear and installed it backwards, that will cause a problem. The teeth are beveled to help the starter engage easily.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

81-F150-Explorer

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Some of the earlier models have straight teeth ring gears, so can be installed backwards or frontwards.

If your mechanic did not know about beveled ones, and that is what you have, then that would indeed be a problem if it's backward.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

mat in tn

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

In reply to this post by Gimmeagig

my son had a similar case but it was due to the guy at autozone selling him a manual starter for his e40d. the seemed to argue a bit over a week and i sent him the required part number. all he got from the autozone guy was "my bad". i could see myself going jekyl and hyde if i had been there

Gimmeagig

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

I asked my Mechanic about the PMGR starter. He does not know what that is.
I'll bring my truck back to him tomorrow and he will take the starter out and look for the beveled teeth. When we replaced the ring gear because it had missing teeth.That used to burn out the starters. We used an upgraded hardened metal one. I was hoping this would take care of it. The truck sat on a friends property for a few years. I brought it to my house because I like the truck and I want to drive it more often. But the truck sounds awful when I start it. My mechanic also said that there are shims available that make the starter engage at a different angle. Do you guys know anything about that?

1985 (March) F150
351 HO
Edelbrock carb
Shortbed

Gsmblue

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

I hate to say it, this may not be the right mechanic for this truck.

PMGR is a new type of starter that was used in later trucks and is pretty common upgrade. Not that I have done it - yet.

Post pics of the ring gear if you can.

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"

Gimmeagig

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

So far my Mechanic has been great, He works on all kinds of classic cars. Jaguars to Mustangs an a bunch of different pickup trucks too. I like him and I trust him.He's honest and he admits when he doesn't know something.
These PGMR starters.... what does the PGMR stand for and what makes them different or better? And where can I get one that's right for my truck?

1985 (March) F150
351 HO
Edelbrock carb
Shortbed

BigBrother-84

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Gimmeagig wrote

These PGMR starters.... what does the PGMR stand for and what makes them different or better?

"PMGR" means «permanent magnet gear reduction».

I was having the same question than you and found this interesting Motor Trend article.

Jeff / 1984 F350 Crew Cab 4x4/5.8L w351 4V/ T18/ D50 4.10 front/ 8' bed.
Restored 2019-2022.
Nicknamed «Big Brother 1984», due to its soooo-looong shape & nod to George Orwell's 1984 famous novel.

Gary Lewis

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Administrator

We have a page on the wiring of them here: https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/pmgr-starter-wiring.html.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Administrator

In reply to this post by BigBrother-84

There is an error in that article, Ford started PMGR starters on the 1990 Lincoln Town Car with the 5.0L (302) V8.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gimmeagig

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Thank you everybody. This is very helpful. I'm taking the truck and the information you gave me to my mechanic this morning. I really love my truck in spite of it being so thirsty and I hope I can get this issue resolved.

1985 (March) F150
351 HO
Edelbrock carb
Shortbed

Gsmblue

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Good to hear you have a good relationship with your mechanic! Hopefully the brain trust here can help you out too!

Stick with it, these trucks are great when you get the kinks worked out.

LARIAT 85

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

In reply to this post by Gimmeagig

Gimmeagig wrote

These PGMR starters.... what does the PGMR stand for and what makes them different or better? And where can I get one that's right for my truck?

PMGR = Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction.

What makes them noticeably different is the smaller size and much lighter weight.

Starting in 1992, these became the standard starters on the F-Series. And since the 1992 models were very similar to the Bullnose generation, the PMGR starter will bolt right in with very little modification. Ford even sold a conversion kit to make it easy to install on older trucks:

Starter motor: E9SZ11002BRM (Motorcraft SA769ARM)
Heat shield: F4TZ11006A
Wiring harness conversion kit: F2PZ11K162A, (Motorcraft SK348)

Instructions: https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/pmgr-starter-wiring.html

Lucille: 1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors: Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain: AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.

Gimmeagig

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

I don't know what happened to my last post. I was trying to update where things are with my truck.That post never showed up here. So I'm trying again...
My Mechanic looked at the flywheel which is an upgraded one,hardened metal and also a little thicker I think. I did that because the previous flywheel had broken off teeth so I figured since the biggest expense is the labor I might as well get the strongest flywheel available so that this can't happen anymore, It has no beveled teeth. My mechanic ended up shimming the starter and now everything is fine.
I read somewhere that I could lube the flywheel with Moly Grease to help the starter engage easier.
What do you think about that?

1985 (March) F150
351 HO
Edelbrock carb
Shortbed

Gary Lewis

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Administrator

If everything is fine now then I'd leave well enough alone.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

81-F150-Explorer

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Gary Lewis wrote

If everything is fine now then I'd leave well enough alone.

I second this.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

Gimmeagig

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Okay that's what I'll do. Thank you guys for your help.
This seems to be a great forum and I'm sure I'll be back looking for help with other issues.
Like how I could make my truck get 20 miles per gallon. Lol

1985 (March) F150
351 HO
Edelbrock carb
Shortbed

Gary Lewis

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Administrator

If you have a 300 six and a 5-speed 20 MPG is obtainable.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

81-F150-Explorer

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

It's obtainable with a 300/I6 with a 4-speed T-18 with 2.75 rear ratio too; with P225/75/R15 tires.

It got better mileage with "real" gasoline though.

But I wouldn't recommend that high of a rear end ratio for anything above a F-150.

Truck: 1981 F-150 Explorer / Engine: 300-6 California MCU Feedback System / Trans: T-18 - 4 speed / 2.75 Ford Rear Axle Open Diff.

Gary Lewis

Re: Help! My starters are noisy and keep burning out.

Administrator

David/F150Six got over 20 MPG a few times with his F150 and the 5-speed. I think he had 3.00 gears but I don't remember for sure. He said his son's F150 got better than that with something like 2.75 gears and the 5-speed but you couldn't go into fifth in a county with a hill higher than 2'.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile