Hello From Colorado 1983 F250

Hello All,

Back in December of 2018 I purchased a 1983 F250 4x2 from a Craigslist listing on an impulse for $800. It has the 460 and 4 on the floor (not sure exactly which transmission yet). It was originally purchased in Pueblo and spent its entire life there, pulling stock trailers. Although documentation on this truck is lacking, most of what I can determine suggests that it is nearly completely stock, at least as far as the engine and transmission are concerned. About 20 minutes after the sale was complete, the oil pressure went from fine, to non-existent. Several quarts were added on the side of the road, yet it did not return. I rang AAA for a tow, but as it was not registered, they would not tow it, and an independent tow company was far to expensive.

Despite no oil pressure, it was still moving under its own power. I had a decision to make, and against all conventional wisdom, I decided to continue driving home. I already knew in the back of my mind that an engine rebuild was inevitable, and every minute it kept running was ultimately a far cheaper tow if it ended up seizing up. With smoke pouring from the rusted out exhaust, I limped that truck the 50-60 miles back home, entirely on surface streets, never exceeding 45mph or 2500rpm. Against all odds, it not only made it just fine, but continued to start and run for weeks afterwords; occasionally I had to start it and move it around the property. In March of '18, it was parked in the garage, and in May the engine finally came out.

When the intake manifold was removed, I found the lifter for cylinder 4 intake rattling around inside of the lifter valley. One of the lifters on cylinder 8 had collapsed, so that cylinder was also inoperable. With the cause of the oil pressure drop determined, the rest of the work began. Since then, here's everything I can remember doing or buying:

Crank went to the machine shop and was turned .010/.010
Block went to the machine shop, got tanked and bored .040 over.
Heads went to the machine shop, got tanked, decked, and had the valve seats ground to match the new valves. Thermactor rails plugged. ARP head bolts.
Sealed Power stock replacement pistons and rings
Clevite mains and rod bearings
Comp Cams K34-234-4 mild towing cam
Comp cams lifters and pushrods
Comp cams valve springs
Comp cams double roller timing set
Edelbrock 2166 performer manifold
New oil, water, and power steering pump

Now, 2 years later, the engine is still in the stand but it's just about done with the major stuff. Tomorrow will likely see the timing cover, water pump, and oil pan go back on. Then in a week or so I'll look at doing the intake manifold, and after that I'll start researching and purchasing a clutch kit and a new flywheel. As this is my first time going this deep in an engine, I've been taking my time and attempting to do as much research as I can before installing or purchasing a new component. Much of '18 and '19 was spent on a very limited budget, but with a new job that started in early 2020, I've thankfully had a bit more disposable income to put towards some of these things. As you may have been able to ascertain, I'm not going for a big power build, and not really looking to do anything fancy. Hauling things to and from places, commuting occasionally, fishing trips, etc. One day, maybe it'll tow the race car, but I'll need to buy a race car first.

Any questions, just holler.

Cheers,
T.P.Crockmier

Welcome!  

Your truck likely has a Borg Warner T-18 or 19.
Both are toploaders with a cast iron lid.
The T-19 has synchro 1st and can be distinguished by a PTO cover on the drivers side. (Both sides)
Where the T-18 is passenger side only.

That's pretty wild.
I've seen bent pushrods before, but actually having the lifter pop out of the block would definitely explain the lack of oil pressure.
Seems like a solid parts list in your rebuild.  
Do you know what the heads cc is now?

I've had great service from Luk clutch kits. (In fact I have another one waiting to go behind my 460)
What are you considering for a carb to go with the performer?
Does your truck have a mechanical fuel pump, or does it use the Hot Fuel Handling (electric pump) system?

Welcome!

Thank you for the welcome. I'm happy to have found a community specific to this era of Ford trucks, and what I've seen so far it looks to be a great place. The guys over at ford460.com have been great as well, but now that I'm looking into things that aren't necessarily directly 460 related, it's good to find an active community behind it.

The Haynes (my primary reference document) led me to believe that it is likely one of those two transmissions as well. As the transmission seems to be functioning with no major issues, it naturally hasn't received as much attention as the engine. I should have some time to poke around tomorrow and see which it is, as now I'm curious.

As for the lifter, that pushrod was still sitting in the lifter bore, getting knocked around by the cam. The pushrod had some wear on the outside, and the pushrod next to the loose lifter had physical damage from said loose lifter as well. I rolled all the pushrods on a piece of glass to check if they were bent. None of them were. The truck has a complicated backstory, but from what I can see and have learned it was beat down hard. However, with a straight body and excellent patina, I chose to roll the dice.

I don't know the volume of the heads off hand. They're stock D3VE-A2A (?) heads, and probably original. Block I believe to be original as well, I can't recall the casting, but it's externally balanced (I've also a new balancer to go with the new seal in the timing cover). I have looked into the limitations of the iron heads and their restrictive exhaust porting, leading me to consider grinding the thermactor ports out of the head, but without the adequate tools to do that at home and lacking the funds to pay the machine shop or buy a new set, a compromise was made. Run what you brung I suppose. If I do find a pair of the pre emissions heads with the smaller chambers, I may snag them (if the price is right) and look into a head swap down the line.

The engine came with a Holley 4160. It was the cleanest thing I removed so I'm pretty sure it's a re-man or recently gotten into as some of the hardware shows tool marks. Reading about the manifold install I came across references to possibly having to change jets to make sure the carb can keep up with the better air flow. Seemingly obvious, but not something I had considered yet. Learning more about the carb and what is in it is definitely on the to do list. When I pulled it, the engine had the cast iron manifold, and someone had done a shade-tree emissions delete. The tubes that fed the thermactor rails in the heads were hammered down flat to 'cap' it, air pump removed, and the EGR plate/manifold ports were all capped off. The truck will not have to pass emissions in the county it will be registered in, so I'm sticking with the emissions delete, but have been cleaning it up as I go.

The truck has dual fuel tanks with the in tank low pressure 'hot fuel' system. Coincidentally, that is what I was researching when I came across this forum. As for the tanks, I do not know if the selector switch works. The engine kept running when I messed with it, but if it 'switched' anything, I don't know.

I have a Luk clutch kit in my Summit wish list right now. I put it in there as it seemed to be an available replacement that was a suitable stock replacement/upgrade quality, good price, and well liked. I still need to measure the old one and figure out exactly what will fit, same for the flywheel.

Welcome!  Glad you joined.  

Where's home?  We have a map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu) and can add you with a city or ZIP.  But wherever you are in a 50 - 60 mile radius of Pueblo you live in a beautiful area.

On the engine, I agree with Jim - looks like a solid build.  And I'm running a Luk clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate in Big Blue's 460.

As for the carb, I doubt you'll be running enough more air through the engine with the intake and cam to cause a jetting change to be needed - assuming it was already jetted correctly.  However, in my experience a 4160 out of the box is jetted fairly rich at sea level, and where you are it may be very rich unless the previous owner had it tuned.

But I think you have a minor problem with your build - ignition timing.  EGR introduces exhaust gas, which is inert, into the air/fuel mix and that causes the flame front to slow significantly.  So the timing in the distributor is advanced to account for that.  But when you eliminate the EGR system now you have too much timing and it is likely you'll have pinging, if not detonation - at least when you get the air/fuel ratio set correctly.

The solution is a distributor with the correct advance.  Jim and I've both used Scotty at Parkland Auto Machine for a number of things, with great results.  And one thing I got from him was a new distributor with the timing built in for my engine setup.  I'd recommend giving him a call and to see about getting a distributor for your setup.

We'll probably need to discuss the fuel system when you get things back together.  What you have is a complex system that is ok when everything works, but by now there are frequently problems.

If it is external balance the block is D9TE.
There were no manual 460 trucks until 1983 Model Year when Ford retired the 400 and brought out the hydraulic clutch for the F-series.

For someone to smash the thermactor crossover tube flat it's more than likely the engine had been out of the truck.
That's really tight back there to do anything

If you're going to look at the gearbox you'll find a casting number on the side.
I've never seen a T-18 come in a 250, but I haven't seen everything, and they do fit up the same.

I can't understand how a pushrod can pop out without bending if the rocker is bolted down, but there it is...
A2A heads should have a volume of ~91.5 cc. I was wondering if you'd had the machine shop deck them to increase the pathetic CR?
Scott Johnston at Parkland Performance Machine has an online tutorial for home porting 460 heads.
If you're considering that, it is WELL worth the price of admission.

These trucks came with a Motorcraft (by Holley) 4180 carb.
The 0-80457 is a popular replacement and works great up to its 600CFM limitation.
I had one on my Performer for quite a few years.
I don'tont think you'll need to re-jet given the specs you've shown. Carbs meter fuel to air, and the Performer isn't a giant single plane Victor.
You might be able to lean it out a bit, but without EGR you're going to want to recurve the distributor.

The last thing you want is a lean 'death rattle' to destroy the pistons in a fresh engine

I suggest you get a non-EGR 1" spacer and work with that.
There's no good way to block the internal ports in the stock one, and it will cause vacuum leaks.(eventually)

What about the thermactor ports in the exhaust manifolds?
I'm assuming if the A.I.R. pumps are removed, the ports are capped?
Or do you have headers?

What are you looking to know about the Hot Fuel Handling system?
Gary and I were discussing some of the variants just the other day.
A pre-'86 truck is going to have a selector relay near the drivers hood hinge.
That's what changes which pump gets power
You can see the '85 & '86 EVTM diagrams a page or two back in Big Blue's thread.
Or you can drill down: documentation>electrical>EVTM's>(your year)>fuel systems>7.5 dual tanks.

Make a new topic about your truck in the projects section, or ask random questions in the main forum.
Glad you've found us!
I hope you find whatever help you need.  

  Gary.

This is what I get when I get distracted making coffee..  

Maybe you have an '83 EVTM to share?

Do we have a DSII distributor recurving thread or tab in documentation/upgrades?
I've always just referred people to Scott's old pages from Reincarnation, but it seems we should....
Of course I don't have a spare distributor, Crane kit or the Mr Gasket spring set.

Coffee making via my Keurig doesn't take long.    (Yes, I know it is environmentally "wrong", but I drink three cups of different roasts at very different times of the day, so....)

I do have the '83 EVTM, but not scanned in nor on the site.  However, I can check out the fuel system when I get out to the shop after while.  I'm thinking that the '83 and '85 were the same, but Ford had so many "better ideas" with regard to fuel systems back then, many of which weren't, that I don't know for sure and had better look.

I just know there were a few iterations along the way, and it's confusing enough for many without the wrong schematic.

See my edited Q above, about the distributor.
I imagine altitude in Pueblo is going to have most 'out of the box' carbs running rich?
Perhaps that's why his 4160 has been messed with?

No, we don't have a recurving thread or page.  Would be good to have a page on ignition timing spelling out initial, mechanical/centrifugal & vacuum advance, how to set/tune them, what they do, etc.  And, a discussion of what EGR does to timing.

As for the carb, I agree.  Out of the box was surely rich in Pueblo at almost 5000', so it may well have been rejetted.  If not, it is probably going to need it.

Hey Guys,

There are just a few more of your points I'll address here before starting a new thread over in a different section about something specific, or maybe tomorrow I'll get some pictures pulled and start a project thread.

At any rate, starting from the top -

"But wherever you are in a 50 - 60 mile radius of Pueblo you live in a beautiful area." - I'm located in Boulder, CO 80305. The truck was in south east Denver when I found the listing.

"However, in my experience a 4160 out of the box is jetted fairly rich at sea level, and where you are it may be very rich unless the previous owner had it tuned." - The previous owner stepped out in front of a box truck on I25, so I'm unable to ask anyone about what may have been done. Investigating the carb to determine what I'm dealing with is definitely on the list.

"But I think you have a minor problem with your build - ignition timing." - I had read a little bit about Scotty and his re-curved distributors. The affect of the EGR on the timing wasn't something I had come across yet, so, much appreciated for putting this at the forefront of the ignition situation. I haven't needed to consider that quite yet, but as I get closer to making a decision on some of the ignition components, I'll definitely start looking into Scotty's shop and his experience with the 460. I've come across his stuff when looking into the heads, and he's very active on the Ford 460 forum.

"We'll probably need to discuss the fuel system when you get things back together.  What you have is a complex system that is ok when everything works, but by now there are frequently problems." -
Definitely agree. All I know is it supplied enough to keep it running when I parked it. Naturally I'll check for function as I get closer to needing to start it, but right now getting it moving under it's own power is the priority. The space it currently occupies will likely be new bedrooms in about a year.

"A2A heads should have a volume of ~91.5 cc. I was wondering if you'd had the machine shop deck them to increase the pathetic CR?
Scott Johnston at Parkland Performance Machine has an online tutorial for home porting 460 heads.
If you're considering that, it is WELL worth the price of admission." - Heads were decked .008, mostly just to clean up the surface than an attempt to correct combustion chamber volume. The heads are back on the block, and in the interest of time (also a factor) we're gonna stick with 'em for now, but I have read up on Scotty's porting and I'll be keeping it as an option in the future.

"I suggest you get a non-EGR 1" spacer and work with that.
There's no good way to block the internal ports in the stock one, and it will cause vacuum leaks.(eventually)" - My understanding as of this point was that the carb can go straight on the top of the Non-EGR manifold without the need for a spacer. Incorporating a spacer will not be an issue, but I'm curious as to the need for a spacer on a non EGR manifold.

"What about the thermactor ports in the exhaust manifolds?
I'm assuming if the A.I.R. pumps are removed, the ports are capped?
Or do you have headers?" - The stock exhaust manifolds do not have any ports in them, so I'm unsure what you mean by this. I would love to do some stainless headers, but I don't have much experience with exhausts, I don't know how to weld, so whatever exhaust solution is devised pretty much needs to be a plug and play situation.

"What are you looking to know about the Hot Fuel Handling system?" - Basically just trying to figure out what it was. I was confused by all the references to the fuel pump eccentric and the fuel pump itself, so I started to learn about how my truck got fuel to the engine. I read about it in the Haynes, and then a brief google of it brought me here. I was pretty much just looking to read about how it worked, so when it comes time to diagnose or modify it, I at least knew what I was looking at and how the pieces interact.


 

I have an eccentric (mechanical pump)
I will say the FSM (factory service manual) is miles better than Haynes, with their generic explanations of things.

Because the carburetor will sit too low for the throttle cable to get a straight shot at it without a 1" spacer.
Also, Gary and I have both posted pictures of how we've had to modify the stock throttle cable bracket to fit Performer intakes.
It might be as easy as slotting the bolt holes, or it might be as complex as cutting it in half and welding it back together.
Gary and I seem to have diametric approaches to getting things done.  

I'd also ask if your truck has speed control.
Because that bead chain adds another dimension to the cable bracket, if you do.

Ah! So when the 460 was reintroduced is '83 it only had a single A.I.R. pump, going to the thermactor crossover?

Later models had two pumps.
One pouring more air into the exhaust manifolds to burn off excess CO.

There's no catalytic converter on these trucks, and there were stainless steel log manifolds that doubled up on the thermactor ports in the heads.
This got the cast iron manifolds and CRES headpipes incredibly hot.

When desmogging a later truck you need to cap these ports individually.
It also allows you to remove the valve covers.
Not sure what genius designed that setup.

Have you found this page?  Documentation/Fuel Systems/460 Fuel Systems and then the Hot Fuel Handling tab.  And the Electrical tab.  Bear in mind that the Electrical tab shows the 1985 EVTM pages and is not correct for 1986 trucks - as I recently learned.  And I haven't checked to see if the '83 and '84 460's were wired like the '85s.  Need to do that.

Sorry about the PO.  Jim might know what stock jetting is for a 4160, I don't.

On the distributor, if you tell Scotty what components you have on your engine he can dial in a new dizzy and send it to you.

Or you can get a Crane advance and a spring kit, to follow the instructions on Scott's old Reincarnation pages.
But that won't get you a limit plate with a tight slot. Which you want in a non-EGR tow rig.

Used to be you could look up any Holley carb by list # in the technical pages of their website.
It would tell you exactly what jetting, slots, PV, cam position, etc.. for every carb they made (even the 4180's they produced for Ford)

But I haven't dug into their site recently.
The list# is on the forward side of the choke horn, on the drivers side.
If you don't know quite which carburetor you have.