Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum

Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Classic

List

Threaded

23 messages Options

Gsmblue

Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

The time is coming...

I have been pushing my luck with the truck, it is clearly suffering from a blown head gasket. Sweet smelling exhaust, using coolant, white muck in the oil at the last change.

I am getting estimates of $3k + to tackle this job!

So the question is, how hard is it to do the head gaskets? What are the stumbling blocks? I have only gone as far as pulling an intake before and I don't have shop impact tools to deal with rusty exhaust manifold bolts. Is this something I could take on or should I keep calling the local shops?

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"

Gary Lewis

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

You can do it. And for FAR less than $3K even if you have to (get to?

) buy a ton of tools!

Seriously though, I've not see a need for an impact to get exhaust bolts out. Or any of the bolts involved for that matter. The hardest part of the whole job is handling the heavy heads, and to do that I'd suggest a step platform of some kind that raises you just high enough to reach over the fender. And with a blanket on the fender you can lift the head on/off.

The job takes me some time as I want to be very thorough and CLEAN everything to ensure the gaskets seal. And, in your case I'd wonder if it was the head gasket's fault or if maybe the head is cracked, so I might have them magnafluxed. And I'd also wonder if it was time for a valve job with new guides and seals. But even with that you aren't going to top $400 in my guess.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

old55pete

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

In reply to this post by Gsmblue

I am going to jump on the band wagon with Gary, R&R a set of heads on a 302/5.0 is not brain segurie and it is not the space shuttle. Air tools do make it nice but are not required. You dont even want to use them on the exhaust manifold bolts! Just slow, steady pressure on a long handled 3/8 drive ratchet. Use old card board box lids and poke holes in them and number them to keep the push rods and rocker arms in the same cylinder.

Something that I have figured out in my old age is to use an engine hoist to take out the heads one at a time..........Here is how I do it, get all of the head bolts out, bold a chain to the rocker studs and take up most of the slack, then break the gasket seal and use the hoist to lift the head out. Make sure that the alingment dowles ether stayed in the head or the block as you will need them to put it back together.

If you dont do any thing else to the heads, take them in and have them magnafluxed and checked for cracks before you put it back together

Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC

Gary Lewis

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

I agree 100%. I would have suggested the engine hoist but doubt he has one. However that's the way I take them off and put them on in the vehicle. And an engine hoist isn't that expensive.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gsmblue

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Good news that no airtools are needed. But now I am worried about cracked heads.

The rear main seal is gone too, so I am wondering how deep the cancer is... The engine is probably in need of a complete rebuild at this point, much like the Bronco engine..

If I had a heated shop, i would be more willing to take this on, but as I don't I am stuck as what to do.

Part of me wants to take the truck in to a good shop and have it fully diagnose and a plan for rebuilding the engine undertaken, part of me wants to limp it through till it dies and then grab a 302 from the breakers and drop it in.

Gary Lewis

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

I think I'd consider a crate engine and be done with it. If you buy that engine hoist it won't be a whole lot more work to replace the engine than just the heads.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

I should have said that I believe you can have a new crate engine for the $3k you were quoted.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Jacob84

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

I wouldn’t pay $3k for a head gasket job, no way. I’m with Gary on that one. Do you know how good of heads you can buy for $1.5k to $2k? That would be a good excuse to gain a healthy amount of horsepower and torque

although it might not be the best decision if the motor is worn out.

I’d do a simple health check on the motor. Obviously you have a head gasket problem but what does compression look like? how many leaks? how many knock knock noises? If it’s time then it’s time but if it ain’t broke then you save some money. But if it’s just the head gasket leak I’d go ahead and have the heads checked for cracks and redone. The longest part about a job like that is getting everything clean to insure a good seal. With farming the heads out to rebuilt they’ll also be cleaned and look all nice, you might even feel inclined to paint them. The most I’ve paid to have a set redone is $300 but things are cheaper where I’m at. By the time you get done cleaning them and checking them you’ll have wished you have had someone to do them. Unless you’re like me, I’m a glutton for punishment and doing things myself lol

I wouldn’t hesitate one second to replace head gaskets myself. It’s completely doable for a competent fella

Jacob,
84 F150 base model, New 95 roller 351w with 5.0 ho roller cam, Summit Racing Max EFI 500, and other toys, MSD DIS, C6 trans, 9 inch rear 3.50, reg cab, long bed, 4x4. 33s, 2.5" Rough Country lift.

grumpin

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Different car and engine, but something I found interesting. I did the head gaskets on the 2000 Xterra we now own.

Got the factory service manual, and Nissan said to pull the exhaust manifolds with the heads, never did that before. It worked, and since a hoist was mentioned, I thought I would mention it.

I didn’t use a hoist, but would have if I had one, definitely would with a heavy 8 cylinder head.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gsmblue

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Thanks for all the input, I am going to take her into a few shops and get some estimates for the work. The EFI engine seems a lot more daunting to switch out, with all the egr and sensors...

Gary Lewis

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

Most of the sensors you'll need to disconnect for an engine swap would need to be disconnected to pull the heads.

Saying it another way, if you pull the heads you'll have also pulled the intake, distributor, injectors & fuel rail, exhaust manifolds, etc. And the power steering pump, A/C compressor, and alternator will have to be laid to the side as they are on brackets that bolt to the heads. After doing all that to pull the engine I think you'd just have to additionally remove the radiator, radiator support, & grille.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

The remanufactured longblock in my truck was $1,600 with a three year warranty ($1,300 without)

I installed it in March 2008.
Because I didn't have time to build the engine I wanted.
(I did install a cam and valve springs)
I took my time and it took three days with cleaning, painting, etc...

Twelve years on it has low oil pressure when really hot and needs a pan gasket anyhow.
So I picked up a Milodan high volume pump and shaft on eBay for $55.
I need to find a concrete floor, then I'll change the flywheel gear and pull the pan.

Even with new fluids and a few front dress parts (fuel pump, water pump, thermostat, backing plate and the usual tune up parts) I'm still well under $2,000 or $200 a year.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gsmblue

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Hmmm... More food for thought for sure. Maybe I am back to the crate engine again!

I have a friend that offered to help with the engine on the bronco, I will see if he is willing to help do 2 engines!!!

old55pete

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Wow............ that blew up real quick. Went from a simple head gasket job to a complete engine replacement.

Once you get the upper manifold off, it looks just like any other engine. The 5.0 has only 3, mabey 4 extra sensors, keep in mind that all of the plugs are different for each sensor. The vacume lines are simple because they are all hard lined and color coded as to where they go. After the heads are off, there is not much left to take off and pull the engine out and do the rear main seal. You can have that done(out and in) before you get the heads back from the machine shop.

Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC

Gsmblue

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Yes it did blow up really quick!

If I had a shop I would just do a crate engine swap. But It is winter and I don't. I have complained endlessly to my wife about this, like it is her fault or something ;)

I think I am going down the route of getting some estimates for the engine work from a couple of local shops, let them tell me what they think needs doing an how much. Then I can make decisions from there.

Worst case scenario is crate engine in the spring I guess. I can take a few days off work and take my time if I have too.

Machspeed

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

Maybe I missed it but how many miles are on this motor? I too am thinking a new long block. And yeah, I'm with the rest of the gang....no way I'm spending $3k on a head gasket job.

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

I think there's no way to know what has happened until the heads are pulled.
But if you keep driving it you risk flame cutting a trough in the deck, and then it's either getting cut to make a high compression engine or you need to find a block.

Or, the head is cracked, and you need to find a core head.

Pulling the heads is not difficult.
You probably want a good size breaker bar to get those head bolts though.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

Another item to consider, the 1985-86 EFI 302 heads are some of the worst heads Ford ever made for those engines. Other item, a good low mileage later model engine, in 1994 Ford went to a roller cam on the 5.0l/302 engine. The Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0L engines have either the GT40 or GT40P heads and are greatly improved, better rear seal, the roller cam etc. You would need to do two major changes, the timing cover and water pump are totally different on all the serpentine belt models (reverse rotation pump) and the Explorer engines are DIS (coil packs), but there is a synchronizer where the distributor goes and you can use your distributor. Firing order changed with the roller cam which will only effect your plug wires as the pre 1994 302s are all bank fired injection (two groups of four).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

Administrator

Yup. The Explorer engine is capable of much more in stock form.
Roller block is not going to wear cam and lifters either.

Maybe find one at a junkyard and fix that if you find the block cut when you pull the heads.

Don't forget that the exhaust is different.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gsmblue

Re: Head Gaskets on 302 EFI

The engine is at approx 130k miles. Rear main seal is leaking, coolant getting into oil and blowing out exhaust, when radiator cap removed can see coolant bubbling away. Using a bit a coolant now, a quart a month if driven daily.

I have some calls in to shops locally about options and hoping I hear something sensible back. But I doubt i will hear anything under $4k - which is what I have put aside for the Bronco engine... funny how these things work out...

Good info on the exploder engine!

If not I am thinking of doing one of 2 things.

1. Source an engine from the breakers
- Pros - cheap, ~$500-$600, pretty quick to get. Get a newer Exploder engine.
- Cons - who knows what I am getting... will take work to clean up and prep. I don't know enough to make sure I am getting all the parts I need. Space needed for 2 pulled engines, hoist and stands. It is winter and I don't have a shop as such..

2. Buy a reman long block
- Pros - good clean block. easy to dress, can change a few things as needed
- Cons - time, a lot of work, the inevitable having to buy 20 unforeseen parts, never done this before, worried about the things I don't know.

Still not sure what to do. The biggest issue is I just don't have an experienced friend to help and as you all know I am regularly out of my depth here!