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Frame is flexing on the driver's side

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CDLong

Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Yesterday we got Big Red, 1985 F-150 302 EFI Auto 4x4 fired up again. When I told Steve about havin' to constantly turn the steering wheel back & forth to stay straight, he had me turn it and checked the steering shaft and steering box. He saw that the frame is flexin' forward of the dual shock mount. He had me continue to turn the wheel and checked the frame for cracks. He didn't find any. The crossmember,(?),

that the sway bar mounts to is bent and I think this may be the problem. I noticed it was bending where the crease is. I need help finding a replacement.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

Often the problem is that the frame cracks behind the steering box (between the two vertical bolts)

If you stand in front of the truck while somebody else turns the wheel side to side (with the engine running) you will observe the driver's side of the bumper rise and fall.

Gary's frame was cracked and the Huck bolt loose.
He has pictures of welding that back up and adding some spacers so both sides of the frame are supported under the bolt pressure.

Your "crossmember" is only there for the sway bar mounts.
A) lots of them get bent when someone who shouldn't own a chain gets pulled, or tries to pull someone else out.

B) Tens of millions of these trucks didn't come with sway bars, or that stamped plate.
None of those trucks handled badly when they left the factory.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

Yes, Jim is right - more than he's said. I've not only had the frame cracked on Dad's truck, but I had the huck bolt loose on that truck and on Big Blue.

The huck bolt is an odd looking fastener that is in the joint on the driver's side where the engine crossmember hits the frame. It frequently gets loose and that was addressed in TSB 97-03-10 FRAME CREAKING/POPPING. But the huck bolt doesn't usually let the frame flex. Instead it lets the frame pop when you change directions. However, I guess if it had been loose long enough that the holes in the frame were enlarged then it could allow the frame to flex a bit.

In my thread on FTE called Dad's Frame & Suspension you can see the huck bolt, but you can also see the crack in the frame that Jim mentioned. Those holes in the frame are the ones that hold the steering box on and that's where the crack developed. And in that thread you can see how I welded it up and reinforced it.

But, while you have that steering box off, and you'll probably have to do so to find a crack, I urge you to replace the box. The original boxes on these trucks are usually very worn and cause a whole lot of the steering problems you described. But there are "rebuilt" boxes and there are "REBUILT" boxes.

Ford's original design for the box calls for the front of the input shaft to ride in a recess in the box as the bearing. But by now that recess is worn and allows movement of the shaft as you steer. And all of the rebuilders but two just use the box the way it is so the box you get from them will be better but not "great".

Redhead and Blue Top go farther by boring out that recess and pressing a true bearing in there so the box is really better than new. I just replaced a rebuilt box on Big Blue that the previous paid big bucks for with a Blue Top and the change was dramatic. The steering is excellent and I no longer have to think about keeping it in its lane. Yes, the Blue Top was expensive at $255, but it is WELL worth it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Thank you sir. I assume I can just straighten the crossmember that the sway bar mounts to?

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

Yes, that's easy enough to do if you take it out and hammer it flat.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rembrant

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Yes, that's easy enough to do if you take it out and hammer it flat.

Ya, that front crossmember...if you can even call it that, is surprisingly flimsy. It's hard to even find a Bullnose with one of these crossmembers that isn't bent lol.

1994 F150 4x2 Flareside. 5.0 w/MAF, 4R70W, stock.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/ 5spd. Sold.
1980 F150 4X4 Flareside. 300i6 w/ 5spd. Sold in 2021.
1980 F100 4X2 Flareside. 351w/2bbl w/NP435. Sold in 1995

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

Very true. I've replaced several of those crossmembers that were bent, but good ones are hard to find.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

This post was updated on .

It is interesting that the heavy duty 2WD trucks do not have a crossmember there for the sway bar, it is just attached to two brackets at the frame sides.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Thanks to all for the help. I found a crack in the steering box mount. I have searched for a new mounting bracket, but only found used on EvilBay. This will probably be a spring repair because I want to replace the steering box as Gary suggested, but Santa is too close the spend that money now.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

I'm reminded of Crocodile Dundee - That's not a knife, this is a knife.

I don't think you have a crack, you have a break.

But I don't know if you really want to replace that part. That's because it is welded to the top of the frame, as shown below on a pic from Dad's truck. So if you were to replace it you'd have to not only drill the many rivets out, you'd also have to cut that weld out - and then weld the new part to the top of the frame.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to repair the part you have in the truck. With the steering box out you should have a fairly straight shot at the break. But you might want to reinforce it, if you can, by welding a piece over the break after you weld it up.

And, when you pull the box check behind it for breaks as with that break lower down things are bound to flex up above - and eventually break there as well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Gary Lewis wrote

I'm reminded of Crocodile Dundee - That's not a knife, this is a knife.

I don't think you have a crack, you have a break.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to repair the part you have in the truck. With the steering box out you should have a fairly straight shot at the break. But you might want to reinforce it, if you can, by welding a piece over the break after you weld it up.

And, when you pull the box check behind it for breaks as with that break lower down things are bound to flex up above - and eventually break there as well.

Thanks Gary. Mount will get looked at with a fine tooth comb when the steering box is removed. I have seen several forum posts where the steering box has been braced to the engine cross member. Do you have anything like that on your trucks? The weld you have the arrows pointed toward looks bad on my truck. Will definitely check it out.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

Yes, I do on Dad's truck. If you haven't read the thread I linked to above then start reading here for the bit on the brace.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Gary Lewis wrote

Yes, I do on Dad's truck. If you haven't read the thread I linked to above then start reading here for the bit on the brace.

Thanks again Gary! I'll look around to find someone to do the welding. I can get the steering box off, but I'm a parts changer with no welding experience.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

Gary Lewis

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

Hopefully you can find someone that can come to you 'cause it isn't going to be easy to take your truck to them.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Now that it's warmin' up, this morning, I took pictures as best as possible all around the steering box mount. The only break I am able to see is the original break. I find it hard to believe that break is causing the frame to flex like it does. I'm removing the cross brace the sway bar mounts to and having it straightened as best as possible. I feel the cross brace being bent up like it is is also a major cause for the steering issue. Am I barkin' up the wrong tree? I have more pics of the area around the steering box if you need to see them.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Sway bar and cross member are unbolted. How do I get the fasteners that hold the bolts off so I can remove the bolts? They kinda look like internal lock washers? Tried picks and small flathead screwdrivers but I don't want to mess the washers, (?), up.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Administrator

In reply to this post by CDLong

Gary has (SURPRISE!) a very detailed thread about the Huck bolt, and this very repair

I, personally, think he went too far (as he does with almost everything) but it does show the problem in detail.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Thanks Jim. I remember seein' something about huck bolts. I worked for an outfit years ago that used them to install 2nd & third steering axles in mobile cranes.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

mat in tn

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

In reply to this post by CDLong

these are retention washers and are serrated at the inner edge. there are six cuts which are flexed over the threads. these are often used as third hands like on brake drums. it speeds up mass production. it could also be helpful in the field. that being said, when they are 40 years old, they can be a pain. get a slim putty knife or slim taper screwdriver and pry up whichever edge you can. basically, you want to snap them. peel them off with needle nose and carry on. although the crossmember/sway bar mount is unlikely to have much effect on the frame flex. it does not actually give much structure. secondary at best. in fact, many don't have this brace at all and who knows how many have been deleted after being bent by improper attachment of tow ropes or chains. yours looks to have been incorrectly helped out of a ditch with a chain. the fact that you have identified a break is the real focus. removing the steering gear may be needed to gain access . but do look up the thread here on "huck bolt".

CDLong

Re: Frame is flexing on the driver's side

Thanks Matt. I found the article on hock bolts. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1307036-dads-frame-and-suspension.html I'll remove the wheel & tire today and start lookin'.

CD Long Jr
1985 F150 XLT Lariat 302 EFI AOD transmission 4x4 regular cab LWB

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