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Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

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RenoHuskerDu

Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

This post was updated on .

You may remember that we have a sweet 1989 F250 with only 106k on the clock. XLT Lariat, no cracks in interior, everything works. Its 7.3 IDI succumbed to water jacket perforation a few months back. I think I already posted about that.

We decided to swap in another motor and a ZF5, located a donor truck after some time, and are undertaking that project now. All is proceeding swimmingly so far. Pics below.

One hurdle will be the 2-piece driveshaft. The outgoing C6 (for sale, was rebuild in 2018 5k miles ago) has a slip shaft output. The ZF5 manual tranny we are installing has a U joint yoke output. See pics.

Question: Has anybody done a ZF5 swap into a Bricky that originally had a C6 automatic? It's an ECLB (extended cab long bed) 2wd F250. How did you resolve the driveshaft difference? Brickys did get the ZF5 option. I suppose I could just buy a replacement driveshaft for a 5sp ECLB Bricky. Or have a shaft built by someone like Tom Wood's (who only builds 1-piece shafts). Whichever is less expensive.

UPDATE: NAPA wants $1100 for a driveshaft that fits a 5sp ECLB ! Yikes.

That's the outgoing C6 tranny and its slip shaft

This is the ZF5 manual we're swapping in.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

It occurred to me that if we were to remove the slip yoke off the front of the old driveshaft, the U-joint might fit directly into the back yoke of the ZF5.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

Gary Lewis

Re: Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

Administrator

I can't answer your questions as I've not done that swap. But we do have the section of the Master Parts Catalog on the site that gives all of the dimensions for every truck from 1980 - 89. And the ZF5 was used in the late 80's.

Go to Documentation/Driveline/Driveshafts and then click the Application tab. Once you have the part number you can go to the Cross-Reference tab and find your driveshaft and its dimensions.

One trick is to click the Full Screen button in the lower right of the window and it'll open that file in a new tab. And then you can use the search function to find the part number.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Bruce moose4x4

Re: Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

In reply to this post by RenoHuskerDu

If the two piece shaft has a slip at the carrier bearing in the middle, that would work. Even if the u joints are different sizes, they make some crossover joints that might work.

Bruce aka Moose--1978 F250 LWB Flareside, Dana 60's w/ 4:10's, 460, c6

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

Thank you gentlemen,

Between your info and Gary's, we are encouraged enough to go ahead and mount up the motor and tranny, then measure and give it a try. There is hope.

Based on some phone research yesterday, I do have driveshaft builder info that you may wish to save in case you ever have need of a driveshaft.

.Tom Wood's has an excellent reputation and are based in Utah. But they only do 1-piece driveshafts. They gave me a lead to PowerTrain Industries.

.PowerTrain Industries is located in Cali, and I didn't get a chance to explore their products. Their web site wants you to call. But the guy hung up on me when I expressed some reservations about Cali, having had generally poor experiences with Cali companies since the whole Cooties virus business started up. Pretty bad to hang up on a customer prospect. Cali has high taxes and business-unfriendly regulations.

.Adam's Driveshaft in Henderson NV was willing to build me one, but that's a few states away from me.

.Gresham's in Odessa TX was easy to work with. If I need a driveshaft, I'll go with them. They offered to only build the front half, which is really all I'd need. Gresham's

.In general, I'd encourage you to check around locally for a driveshaft builder with a good reputation and attitude. There are still numerous out there, especially if your state has a lot of agricultural tractors teeming thru your plains, hills and dales.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

Gary Lewis

Re: Farm Truck project kicks off with a driveshaft question

Administrator

Glad you got it figured out. And having just the front one made is a good idea.

As for getting hung up on, you are right to move on. They obviously can't spell "customer support".

And working locally is a good idea anyway. Now you have someone to go back to if you have an issue or a question. And they aren't likely to hang up on you, either.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

RenoHuskerDu

Pull old motor and clean engine bay

It's an unpleasant job but I took it on. Gave the boys tougher jobs, lol.

That motor stand was not up to the task ... had to brace under the damper with a 2x6
Harbor Freight offers a 1 ton stand ... out of stock of course

Cleanliness is next to Godliness.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

Gary Lewis

Re: Pull old motor and clean engine bay

Administrator

That is a LOT of weight, so I'm not surprised that little stand wasn't up to the task. Glad you didn't break it.

Anyway, good luck cleaning up. I spent a loooooong time with a pressure washer to clean up Big Blue after all of his leaks. What a mess!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Pull old motor and clean engine bay

The pressure washer is our friend.

It's those greasy little minions projected back at us at 60 mph that are our enemy.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

RenoHuskerDu

Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

In reply to this post by RenoHuskerDu

We pulled this pedal box at the junkyard today. It's the last manual tranny Bricky in the yard. Got it home and cleaned it up for install (Farm Truck is going from C6 to ZF5). Alas, we found a crack. To my eye it's structural.

What do y'all think? I'm not inclined to install it with that crack in it.

We do have TIG capability, if we bought the right gas, but we haven't done TIG yet so there would be a learning curve. However we do have a great welding shop nearby where we could take it.

Or, could it simply be JB Welded on both sides? That I doubt, but thought I'd mention it.

Pics:

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

Gary Lewis

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

Administrator

Yes, that looks to be structural, and JB Weld isn't going to hold it. I think I'd buy the bottle and learn to TIG, but maybe start on something different?

On the other hand, that is a casting and maybe cast aluminum welds differently, just like cast iron does. Maybe it is time to take it to a pro?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

In the oven for a good hot preheat, wrap it to keep it hot while welding, then back in the oven after the welding. But my wife would certainly not want that in her oven.

Unless someone here jumps in with a BTDT story, I'm taking it in to the pro Monday morning.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

grumpin

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

I agree, I’d let a pro weld it.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

Administrator

Agreed. Unless done correctly that thing may crack more.

But, maybe I have the right box in the attic? It will be from Huck, the 1990 half-truck, which had an auto. And I'd bet the later boxes are like the Bullnose boxes - the manual boxes had a bit more to them for the spring. Right?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

Yep the manual boxes are a bit wider for that spring and a switch on the clutch for cruise.

But thank you. We do have a spare auto pedal box on hand now.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

ratdude747

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Cast Aluminum is a crap shoot when it comes to welding. Sometimes it welds OK, sometimes it's not at all weldable. 1st step is getting some good crack detect spray and fiding the actual ends of the crack and drilling them. The v-groove and weld. Lots of trash will come up... very dirty process, even when well cleaned and TIG'd. Just the nature of castings.

Cast iron's issue is partially these... but the main issue it has that cast aluminum doesn't is a lack of elongation... hence why nickel rods and preheat is common, and why often brazing is a better solution than welding.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

My welding shop called back. They hit it with an aluminum TIG rod as a test and the metal just melted, giving off a white smoke. It's not aluminum.

This morning he'll have a zinc rod delivered and give that a try.

Zinc is the primary metal in what's called Pot Metal link.
Another Ford "better idea" I guess. Anybody else remember that Ford jingle?
Yet on balance, I'd rather drive Fords than other trucks.
So we do.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Cracked pedal box from junkyard, oh no...

Administrator

I'm fairly certain there's a good amount of magnesium in the mix too.
I've never heard of anyone welding one of these.
Maybe silver brazing, or one of those 'Alumiweld" sticks meant for pot metal?

A pro would know better than me.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

RenoHuskerDu

Cracked pedal box fixed, fiberglass it or not ????

The welder was able to patch it up with a special zinc TIG rod. He said he's been welding all his life and rarely seen anything so difficult.

Now my question is, should I take the time to fiberglass and reinforce the crappy thin Furd pedal box? This is clearly one area where Bullys are better. The Bullnose flexing firewall issue is easier to remedy.

As a side note, I called Flaming River and asked about their extra strong super duper steering columns. What a poor attitude the guy had. I gather that the only shaft they offer for us is their universal, with heavy mods required to fit it. Ford pickups are not their market apparently.

The red arrow shows the weld, the green arrows are where I'd lay in some fiberglass. What do you think?

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.

RenoHuskerDu

Re: Cracked pedal box fixed, fiberglass it or not ????

We fiberglassed it last night. Turned out pretty well. Just needs a little trimming after it's fully cured. I found a few hits on the web, other forums, of guys griping about Ford pedal boxes cracking. Were I to go dare ask the dealer for this part, I imagine he would laugh as cruelly as Stalin when he enslaved Europe ...

All needed materials were at the local hardware store for $60, and we have 95% of it left over. I'd encourage all of you to think about using fiberglass to repair parts on our trucks.

Reno in Central Texas, 86 F250 XLT Lariat eclb 2wd 6.9, plus 2 Bricknoses, 1 Aeronose that's getting a Bullnose front clip, and parts trucks. Busy lads, father and sons wrenchers.